To" Deltalum, JAM, Carnation, etc.

[damasa]

I was talking about saving for a child's college education a few nights ago with someone and she was saying how she wanted to start saving for that right away.

I just have a question for you all, and anyone on these boards that has helped put a child through college.

When did you start saving for your children's college education(s)?

[carnation]

Damasa, we didn't.

When we knew we'd be having more than a dozen children, we decided that we would make such students out of them--with such a list of activities--that they would get offered a lot of money from a lot of schools. With us, school comes first and we get the kids reading early. They study together--right now, 2 are working together on summer school Spanish.

I guess it's working--this fall, we'll have three with full rides!

[DeltAlum]

Damasa,

Good question.

We started mutual funds for each of the kids, and also one for ourselves probably about the time our first went into junior high school.

We were fortunate. When our oldest went to college, I had a very well paying job -- which later went away in a corporate merger. She went in state for two years (she was recruited into a musical theatre department), and then went out of state for her final two years. Between the mutual funds and my salary, it was tight, but not terrible. One interesting thing, when she out of state, we bought her a condo at the new school (which happened to by our Alma Mater). We still own it -- rent it out -- and actually make some money on it. By the time we sell it, she will have basically gotten free room.

Our middle daughter went to cosmotology school, which was a one time payment.

Since the corporate merger mentioned above, I make about half of what I made before and we used up a lot of our reserves while I was looking for new work.

It looked like we were going to go into big time debt to get our son through college at a big time, expensive school -- but, as a National Merit Scholar, he got very nearly a full academic ride at the University of Oklahoma, which he accepted. I would have loved for him to go to Northwestern or one of the other schools he had originally chosen, but it's tough to turn down a full ride. And, as it turns out, he really liked the Oklahoma campus.

We did tell him we would pay for one degree, so since he got the scholarship, we will pay for a Masters at Boston or Northwestern or one of the Ivys if he wants to go.

So, we did some good things, had some bad and then very good luck. Quite a saga.

More than you wanted to know.

[IowaHawkeye]

I'm only 20 years old, and I already feel like I should be saving for my childrens education, my future house, and my retirement plan...

everything seems to be getting more expensive these days, and though the career path i've chosen should provide, but by no means gaurantees, a comfortable lifestyle - i just want to be able to have the time off from work to do the things i want to do without having to worry about my childrens education, my mortgage, and my future financial security...

The tuition went up almost 18% at my school, which is an out-of-state school so it was almost $2,000 more... but even in state, at the University of Illinois, i believe tuition for next year rose at least 15%...

I just don't understand how people are going to afford college if it keeps getting more and more expensive...

I give mad props to those who pay for their own college education, and although I will always stress academics and hope for some scholarship money, I want to plan and save for the idea that I will have to pay for my childrens education - b/c I want them to focus on school and not making ends meet...

[justamom]

Damasa,
It seems like you can't start early enough! When you consider the competition for jobs on a national AND international level-the rising costs and the increasing number of students, by the time kids in elmentary school hit college, a degree will be the equivalent of a HS diploma. (It almost is now for certain professions) It was a given in our minds that the children MUST attend a graduate school at a minimum.

We started with Treasurey Notes. Hubby had $100.00 per month per child drawn directly from the account. We also encouraged them to contribute a percentage of their gift money to savings accounts we set up for them. It STILL isn't enough. Yes, it covers dorms and such, but the OTHER expenses that aren't mentioned in the handbook are what eats up the cash. We felt that Greek life was an important part of the college experience and that is by no means cheap. Their grandparents also set up a savings account for college which will most likely be tapped into sometime in their post graduate years.

Stocks are risky as since 2000, many have seen their future washed down the tubes. We are lucky in the sense we have TOPS which pays for tuition if a minumum GPA is maintained (something like 2.7).

Community colleges are a nice safety net if you have one near, by being able to commute. Scholarships are getting harder and harder to obtain for you child even if they score high and graduate with honors.(competition again) One of the best things you can do is talk to your child like college graduation is as much a given as HS graduation-there is NO QUESTION. Then, if they have the drive and desire, should your personal financial word take a HIT-like in this stock fiasco, a devastating illness (or as in our case-total destruction of 2 cars in 6 months!!!!!!!) your kids will have it within them to rise up and WORK for what they want!
You are thinking the right way. On a "life lesson note" I was taught it was a "sin" to raise a child and NOT give them the tools to achieve the lifestyle in which he/she was raised. HUGE isn't it!

[DeltAlum]

As usual, JAM hit a lot of very important points. The competition is tough.

Our mutual funds got hammered in the market -- pretty much like everyone else.

The other thing I might mention is that, while a large percentage of students at any given school often are on scholarship, the grants seem to be getting smaller. Our number one daughter got two scholarships when she was instate -- one talent and one academic. Together, they amounted to $1000 per year. She got about $6000 per year when she went out of state -- which paid for about half of the tuition and no room and board or other expenses. And that was at a state supported university.

A word about our son's experience. As a National Merit Finalist (at that point),VP of the student body, etc., he was recruited by all of the "big time" schools. What was interesting is that the "highly selective" schools like the Ivys, Northwestern, Stanford, etc. don't give any "merit" scholarships -- they are all need based. So, if your family is middle to upper-middle income, forget scholarships from the schools. Figure on loans and private scholarships -- which, of course, the school deducts from your guaranteed loan amounts. It's a real "Catch 22." I think that penalizes the kids from middle income families who are great high school performers. But that's another story.

He did not even apply to Oklahoma -- but, as it turns out, they heavily recruit National Merit kids. They have more, per capita, than any other college in the country. The give them excellent grants, tuition waivers, etc. -- and they set up special honors programs for them, have a special office for them, a special dorm, select floors in other dorms, special scheduling (before even the grad students), a summer exchange program with Oxford, chances for international study at OU tuition rates, etc. It appears to be a really outstanding program.

(As an aside, he got so much mail from colleges, we started throwing away everything from schools he hadn't applied to unopened. That almost happened to the letter from Oklahoma, but, for some unknown reason, Mrs. DeltAlum decided to open the envelope with the scholarship letter. It nearly went into the "circular file" unread. The moral, I suppose, is to at least look at all of the mail you get.)

Our son's first choice initially was Yale, then became Northwestern. He was accepted everywhere he applied. But when you consider the long term effects on the student and family (loans, etc.), a very fine university like Oklahoma sounds pretty damn good.

Plus, they almost guaranteed us a National Football Championship sometime in the next two to three years. Not that it counts, of course...

Bottom line here is that when you ballance $150-200K in loans at a highly selective school against a full ride at an excellent state school (by the way, we don't live in Oklahoma), unless the family is wealthy, it's really hard to justify the former -- no matter what the name of the college is. (One of our son's best friends, another of the National Merit Scholars from his graduating class, decided to go to Harvard -- which is great -- but her parents can afford it without scholarships or loans. More power to her.)

While it would be wonderful to have a degree from Harvard, you have to consider the long-term effect on the family. We would have done what was necessary to get our son into whatever school he wanted to attend -- fortunately for us (and him also, I believe), he was able to see past the glitz (at least in his chosen major) and understand what would work best in his case over the long haul.

If that includes junior/community college and an instate school, so be it.

[KillarneyRose]

The thing that is really irksome is that, in order to really afford college, a family has to either be destitute so that they can get student loans and grants or really, really wealthy so that they can write the tuition checks.

My husband and I started putting aside money for college almost as soon as we learned I was pregnant with our first daughter. We're one of the in between people. My family lives comfortably; hubby's civilian salary is in the low, low six digits (we're taking a hit since his reserve unit got called up) but it won't afford us the luxury of paying college tuition out of hand and need-based financial aid is out of the question.

I got through college with grants, scholarships and working my butt off and hubby went to a service academy for free and we established early on that it was important for both of us that the girls are able to attend any college they can get in to. We're in good shape as of now to achieve that goal, but it's a good thing we started as early as we did judging by the ever-rising college costs!

PS Anyone send their kiddies to private school? Daughter number one's first grade tuition this past year was $7,400.00 or roughly what I paid for two years of college Ugh!

[DeltAlum]

KillarneyRose wrote:

"The thing that is really irksome is that, in order to really afford college, a family has to either be destitute so that they can get student loans and grants or really, really wealthy so that they can write the tuition checks."

Exactly!!!

Before I even start, please understand that I am strongly in favor of fanancial aid for low income students. They deserve it.

When our daughter went to college, I was in the same financial position as KR's husband. Then, after a "corporate merger," and being out of work for a year, I accepted a job for half that amount. You can do the math.

So, let's take a look at someone else who I think deserves it. Ok, so it's our son and I'm prejudiced.

-One of two Outstanding Freshmen.
-Freshman Senator

-One of six Exceptional Sophomores
-Sophomore Senator
-Regional essay and speech contest winner.
-State and national contest winner in vocal music.

-One of six Exceptional Juniors
-Junior class VP
-National Merit Semi-Finalist.
-Math presentation on graph theory to students and faculty from all over the country at Rutgers University.
-State award in vocal music.

-One of two Outstanding Seniors -- class of 450
-Student Body VP
-One of twelve Outstanding Seniors in the school district
-National Merit Scholar
-Honors Diploma (all academic courses either honors or AP)
-Outstanding Student in Performing Arts
-4.4 weighted GPA
-Presidential Medal for hundreds of hours of community service.
-Regional awards in writing and public speaking.
-"Perfect" math scores in both SAT and ACT.
-Homecoming King
-Leading roles in school musicals. Select choirs.
-State winner in vocal music competition (competing nationally this week)

Enough. You get the picture. So, he's a smart, popular geek!

We also decided our kids could go anywhere they were accepted -- which was everywhere they applied.

So, guess what the almost identical financial packages were from two "highly selective schools? (I won't name them, they all have pretty much the same entrance requirements and cost about the same -- but one is in the Chicago area and one in Boston -- you can probably figure it out.)

These numbers are approximate:

Cost (without travel and expenses) $40,000/year.
Need based scholarship: $0.00
Merit based scholarship: $0.00
Guaranteed loans (Univ and Fed) $29,000/year
Family out of pocket direct $11,000/year

Come On!!!

Again, I strongly believe that the kid with the 3.0 GPA from a "poor" family deserves a big scholarship!

But our son doesn't?

They BOTH do.

Schools should offer both Need and Merit based scholarships!

By the way, there is one exception at the schools who offer only "need" based scholarships. They offer full athletic scholarships. I've got no problem with college athletic scholarships, but do think it's strange that they are the only "merit" based money available at these places. Are they run by the NCAA?

Thankfully, our son realizes the dynamics of our family financial situation and took the big scholarship at an excellent state university (although out of state for us), instead of bogging himself and us down with hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of loans.

What is also interesting to me is that the other schools who offered decent scholarships, by and large, were state supported schools outside the state in which we live. Of course their tuition costs are generally double for out of state students.

The kicker to this story is that now we're receiving letters from these "highly selective" schools wondering why he chose to go elsewhere?

Go figure. They can't seem to.

[Star Turtle]

i'm 21, starting my final year of undergraduate school, applying to grad school, and coming to the realization that i will never be able to provide for a future child's education, because i will forever be paying off my own student loans.

my entire high school is like this. either the student is lucky to get a full ride, or spends FOREVER paying student loans. I guess the saddest thing is that a few of my friends who were lucky enough to get full rides (most of them to more than one school) have since dropped out of school, while i'm still trudging along, praying that i can get through this eventually.

I never expected that my parents would pay for my college, and while i can't understand why a kid with a strong extra-curricular (i was a band geek forever) and good overall grades (i think i had a 3.7 on a 4.0 scale) would get passed for someone that had already accepted to another college.

i dunno - does any of that make sense - prolly not!

[Tom Earp]

It is a DAMN SHAME that we have come to this.

I worked each summer and put my way threw school! Yep, a chemical company where we were tested each time we moved around the other people! DA!

Hell it was obsorbed threw the skin!
Well except my first year where I worked as Janitor for the school in one of the Dorms! It was also my last as I was know as the boy who had to work to pay his way through school!

Of course, I was the boss. I had a BIG Polisherer and told all of the ass wholes to get out of the way! If you get my drift!

I know that the U of Kansas and K U want a 25 % increase, Damn we will soon have a country of more morons!

No Way can I or would want to try to put a kid in college today?

That is why the smaller schools give bigger scholorships for the kids!

It still cost a lot of money anyway!

Good luck to the Parents today and more luck to the Parensts of tomarrow!

[SilverTurtle]

I come from one of those "in-between" families, too. Middle-class, but not wealthy enough to just write out tuition checks.

It was always made very clear that college was important. As someone mentioned, it's almost the equivalent to a HS diploma 30 years ago. It was also very clear that while my family would support me however they could, there was a limit to the finances.

My brother went to a small private school out of state and paid for almost everything himself. (It's been a long time, I don't remember what kind of aid he received).

I went to a small private school in state. Even with need-based, merit-based and talent-based (music) grants/scholarships, that covered 1/2 of my tuition (full tuition roughly $17G/year), that still left room/board, books, etc. My family paid for what they could, and I paid for the rest. Which is okay. I don't think that it's the family's reponsibility to be poor in order to get the kids through college.

My sister went to a state school, about a 30-40 minute commute from my mom's house. She lived at home, and my mom was able to pay for ALL of her tuition AND books (and she had free room & board from living @ home). She then got married, moved to Georgia and transferred to a 2-year technical school for cosmetology. My mom was able to pay for all of her tuition and books there, too. (Then she did so well, that she's had a full ride since her first term there! She just graduated last week!)

I think that when you have several kids it's different than having one or two, also. If you can afford to pay for it, that's great. And you should save to at least help with the costs. But there's nothing wrong with paying for your own education either. It does teach you priorities, time management, etc. And if you utilize your school's career placement center, you can usually find paying jobs and internships at least remotely relate to your career, giving you some added job experience.

Right now I'm trying to go to grad school at least part time, and I'll be paying for that entirely myself. My job does offer some tuition assistance, in certain areas of study, I just have to work it in to the schedule.

[AOX81]

My parents did not put aside any money for me to go to college so I had to pay for it all by myself. It took me two jobs and about 6 years but I finally graduated