You are going to H*LL

CrimsonTide4 · #1 06-29-2002, 04:01 PM

LOXLEY (AP) -- Police are investigating claims that a preacher who told funeral mourners the deceased was in hell -- and that they were headed the same way -- was attacked during the service and dragged out of the church.

The alleged attack began after Pastor Orlando Bethel, 35, began preaching after singing a song at the June 14 funeral of Lish Devan Taylor, the uncle of Bethel's wife Glynis. "He got up and began to share with them that Lish Devan was not there because he was in hell and he was a drunkard and a fornicator," Mrs. Bethel, who is also a preacher, said in an interview Friday with The Associated Press.

"He said, 'You need to repent for fornication,' " she said. "The fornicators didn't like what he said so they got up and beat him." Members of the congregation allegedly dragged the preacher out of the pulpit and began assaulting him. The fight spilled out into the parking
lot, and Mrs. Bethel said some of the mourners later showed up at their house and attacked her husband again.

The alleged attackers and other relatives of Taylor could not be located by telephone for comment Friday. Taylor, 56, died of prostate cancer, according to Mrs. Bethel. Mrs.
Bethel said police refused to make any arrests in the melee, so she and her husband are taking out warrants for four men who the Bethels say participated in the attack. Bethel suffered numerous cuts and bruises and may have a broken nose, she said.

Police Chief Cliff Yetter said the case was still being investigated. A witness claimed to have a videotape of the fracas but police have yet to see it, he said. Hearing an unflattering description of the dead man angered many of his relatives, but Mrs. Bethel said her husband was duty-bound as a minister to "preach the Gospel."

"It doesn't matter where it is," she said. "He was a wicked man as outlined in the Bible."

www.decaturdaily.com

**ONLY @ A BLACK FUNERAL

!!**

Blackwatch · #2 06-29-2002, 05:15 PM

I was watching I think the State of Black America Conference in D.C. on C-Span earlier this year, and I believe that Wallace Muhammed, Son of Elijah Muhammed, said it best when asked about the Jihad that was declared after Sept. 11, he said, "Everyone with a Koran needs not preach about the Koran". Then several ministers there concurred with him about the Gospel. This may sound elitist, but I think there are too many black preachers in churches all across America that take their "calling from God" to mean that they can preach an ignorant, uninformed, and therefore Dangerous message about righteousness and judgement, never taking the time and effort to come up with innovative and responsible ideas. Whether or not the deceased in this article was going to hell wasn't for the Eulogizer (meaning a person who says something good about the deceased) to proclaim. The last time I checked, the gospel was about salvation, not condemnation. Jesus tells his disciples to go out and make disciples of men, preaching the gospel of the good news , not go out and condemn.
Blackwatch!!!!!!

Nubian · #3 06-29-2002, 08:35 PM

You would think that the preacher would have the tact and respect to refrain from condemning the deceased at such a somber time. While the Bible teaches us that it is wrong to fornicate and indulge in alcohol and drugs, it also teaches us to "Judge not lest ye be judged."

It really bothers me when people pass judgement on others while struggling to keep their own skeletons hidden; but I guess that's the world we live in.

straightBOS · #4 06-30-2002, 11:13 AM

Well, if the preacher was fully informed of the deceased man's activities and was not a fornicator himself, would he then be entitled to pass judgement?

Really, judgement is not a bad thing and should not be interpretted that way.

My question is, what did the family really expect? If a man leads a life that leans towards the grittier side of humanity, how can they really expect the pastor to forget that? If they were truly responsible they would have held the service at a funeral home so that it could be conducted however they chose. But, if you insert a man of God into the proceedings, you should find out BEFOREHAND what he may or my not say about the deceased.

If people don't like the Gospel, stop reading the Bible. If someone don't like the concept of hell, then perhaps one may like to try a religion that does not have this concept.

Blackwatch · #5 06-30-2002, 06:56 PM

From Straight BOS....

Quote:

If people don't like the Gospel, stop reading the Bible. If someone don't like the concept of hell, then perhaps one may like to try a religion that does not have this concept.

Very interesting statement, that would presume that pronouncing that someone was going to hell is the Gospel. The last time I checked, Jesus never told his disciples that anybody that he came into contact with was going to hell. Not the woman at the well, not the woman caught in adultry, not the man possessed with the legion Demon, not even Judas Iscariot himself. Jesus taught that there was consequences for sin that the people committed, but he pronounced that he came into the world not to condemn it, but to save it. That is what the gospel is about, the idea that people in their fallen state from God, can yet be redeemed through God's grace. That is not to say that people did not go to Hell during Jesus time or our time today. This only states that we do not know who is going to Heaven or hell, because it is not our job to proclaim this (in fact, Jesus taught that the Father would be the only one to proclaim this judgement on people, not even Jesus himself would do this. Mat. 25:31-46). We are only to proclaim that Jesus saves, and his grace is open to everyone. Sure we believe in hell as being a place for those who sin, but haven't we all sinned and fallen short? It is only by God's grace that we can turn from our own sin and follow him, so why become "holier than thou" at a person who caught in sin and pronounce this condemnation (to hell) of him?

The Bible does teach us to judge the fruit of people (i.e. their actions and deeds) and test them against the universal laws of righteousness. But the Bible never tells us to condemn people to hell. We do not have that power, nor should we have it.

Blackwatch!!!!!!

ClassyLady · #6 06-30-2002, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by straightBOS
Well, if the preacher was fully informed of the deceased man's activities and was not a fornicator himself, would he then be entitled to pass judgement?

Really, judgement is not a bad thing and should not be interpretted that way.

Even if the preacher did know that this man was a fornicator, he was still in no position to judge him. First, because that preacher is a human being. To live on this earth is to live in sin. "Not one is righteous, for all have fallen short of the glory of God." Sound familiar? That preacher is just as much of a sinner as the deceased was. He may not fornicate, but he might lie, cheat, or steal. In the eyes of the Lord, it's all the same.

Additionally, that preacher does not know what was in that man's heart and soul but the Lord does. I am sinner. Everyday I sin and fall short of the glory of God. But every night, I pray and I pray hard and ask for forgiveness. I know that my Lord sees deep down inside me and knows what is in my heart. I may not always do right but I am a good person inside. How does that preacher know whether the deceased prayed for strength and guidance to stop sinning? How does he know if that man was repentant? He doesn't and that is why we shouldn't pass judgement on other people because as much as you think you know about them, there is still much more that you will never know.

Whatever happenen to hating the sin but loving the sinner.

ladygreek · #7 06-30-2002, 08:36 PM

Sounds like a rather dysfunctional family, preacher and all.

CrimsonTide4 · #8 06-30-2002, 08:49 PM

Doggystyle I see your point in terms of ministers giving the truth and getting those who are not right with Christ to possibly get right. However, how does this minister know that the deceased was not right with Christ. We have fornicators in the church, in the pulpit even.

I agree with soror LadyGreek, some Jerry Springer type of dysfunction up in there.

Ms. Jay · #9 07-01-2002, 01:07 PM

If he felt that way then he should not have been speaking!

12dn94dst · #10 07-01-2002, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CrimsonTide4
Doggystyle I see your point in terms of ministers giving the truth and getting those who are not right with Christ to possibly get right.

am i missing a post somewhere?

Honeykiss1974 · #11 07-01-2002, 01:22 PM

I think the preacher should have saved his " hell, fire, and brimstone" sermon for next Sunday's service and not a funeral! Granted, I don't think he should preside over the funeral telling bold faced lies about the deceased (because I'm sure his family would have known otherwise) but still, just leave it at a few kind words and step.

Ok, now the family....

DAMN, DAMN, DAMN !!!!!!!!!!!

throws punchbowl on the floor

Their actions are deplorable!

If you're mad, write the church elders, missionary board, the bishop, etc., but to go around like thugs and beat this man up..............

CrimsonTide4 · #12 07-01-2002, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 12dn94dst

am i missing a post somewhere?

Hmm DOggy posted right after Soror LadyGreek but I did not quote him but he must have deleted his post.

carolyne · #13 07-01-2002, 01:29 PM

If someone lived a sinful life (fornicator, alcoholic, ect.), should the person who is eulogizing him/her lie during the funeral? How would you handle this situation. We have to face the fact that not everyone is worthy of nice words being said at their funeral.

CrimsonTide4 · #14 07-01-2002, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by carolyne
If someone lived a sinful life (fornicator, alcoholic, ect.), should the person who is eulogizing him/her lie during the funeral? How would you handle this situation. We have to face the fact that not everyone is worthy of nice words being said at their funeral.

Very simple, I would have said, We all have sinned and come short of God's glory. I cannot judge our beloved brother/sister because I am only here because of God's grace and mercy. Everyone's life has its high points and low points, but through God's restorative power, the low points don't last always. Can I get a witness.

Our beloved brother/sister was not a believer/saved (whatever term you want to use) so I want to make sure that no one here ends up like the dearly departed. The only way to heaven us through God and his son. If anyone wants to come to know God for himself, I will be glad to lead you that way.**However if the deceased had at some point in his life accepted Jesus as his saviour, no matter how far off the Christian lifestyle road he had got off, then I believe he will be in heaven.**

ClassyLady · #15 07-01-2002, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CrimsonTide4

Very simple, I would have said, We all have sinned and come short of God's glory. I cannot judge our beloved brother/sister because I am only here because of God's grace and mercy. Everyone's life has its high points and low points, but through God's restorative power, the low points don't last always. Can I get a witness.

Our beloved brother/sister was not a believer/saved (whatever term you want to use) so I want to make sure that no one here ends up like the dearly departed. The only way to heaven us through God and his son. If anyone wants to come to know God for himself, I will be glad to lead you that way.**However if the deceased had at some point in his life accepted Jesus as his saviour, no matter how far off the Christian lifestyle road he had got off, then I believe he will be in heaven.**

Preach it Girl, Preach it!!!!

CT4 done took us to chruch up in here and I have to thank her for such a nice trip!