How do you feel about this controversial topic?

[AZpinkkittie]

How do you guys (or your entire organization) feel about gay sisters/brothers?? Do you have "out" members and did they face a lot of problems with the decision to be honest about themselves, or is it an unspoken understanding that no gay members are accepted?

I am not gay, but I have a lot of friends who are and they told me this weekend that they are nervous my possible involvment with a GLO will prevent me from hanging out with them, because of the suspected homophobic attitude of greeks. And to be honest, I don't know if I would want to be apart of a group that treated homosexuals badly. So, can my friends rest easy, or do they, and I, have reason to worry??

[Opie25]

AZpinkkittie:

There are actually a couple of threads that have discussed this topic in the past and I will post some links at the bottom of this message.

Unfortunately, I think the answer to your question is...it just depends.

It is hard to tell or judge if a person (or group of persons) have homophobic attitudes when going through a very structured process such as recruitment (particularly sororiy recruitment). I would say that most likely that this is something that you would find out during your new member program just by the attitudes, conversations, etc. with other members.

I can tell you with almost 100% accuracy that there are (or have been) gay/bisexual members in every fraternity or sorority at one time (maybe not the chapter of that org. at that time) but I'm sure that one time or another a chapter is going to have a member who is leasbian/gay/bisexual.

I have a few gay chapter brothers (4 that I can think of [and know of]...out of around 50 when I was an undergrad.) At no point in time did they (or I) feel that we couldn't be in the chapter (or out) for that matter....actually if I think about it....most of those brothers who are gay were some of the most involved, and dedicated members and students on campus.

Now, we didn't have a brother during my time as an undergrad who "officially" came out to the entire chapter, but there where brothers who knew...it was something that just wasn't discussed...at least not in my presence...but that doesn't surprise me....lol...

Honestly, in a big group you are going to have opinions and feelings in either direction. There are going to be members who are very supportive of lesbian/gay/bisexual individuals and those who are not.....in a chapter you align youself with those indivdiuals that you feel most comfortable with (believe it or not you will not get a long with every member of your chapter...trust me on that one!!!!)

There are a number of different resources that you can check out:

http://www.lambda10.org (a website dedicated to gay & lesbian fraternity sorority issues)

On greek chat:

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22081&highlight=homosex ual+greeks

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16790&highlight=homosex ual+greeks

Hope some of this helps.

-o.p.i.e.

[Kevin]

One of the largest fraternities on our campus had around 10 guys come out at the same time. Everyone else figured it'd be devestating for them.

To be fair, they DID sweep it under the carpet and minimize it during recruitment. Other houses tried to make a big deal of it (one painted rainbow colors over their letters). However, it doesn't seem to have effected them much over the long haul.

I couldn't tell you whether it has been a good or bad thing. I'd assume it was a challenge to their brotherhood but it looks like they succeeded.

[astroAPhi]

Honestly, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But opie is right, it all depends on how you think of gay people in general. If you are extremely homophobic, then yes, you will have a problem with gay men or women in your GLO. If you are accepting of gay people, then you most likely won't care.

There's a few gay guys in one fraternity on my campus. Most people call them cruel names, paint pink triangles on the street by their house, and do nothing but talk about how they're ALL gay. I think they're great for being so accepting of their brothers who are gay. It's starting to come out that other members of the Greek community are gay though, and they're starting to get shit about it. I'm very disappointed in our Greek community in that respect.

[GeekyPenguin]

Our SFE chapter had an openly gay founding father, and it was a non-issue with them. To this day, they have a "Safe Zone" pink triangle at the entrance to their house. I believe they still have a couple gay brothers, but I don't think any of them our out. I also know our FMA Sinfonia chapter has several openly gay brothers, one of whom is a Gammie Guy for my chapter (I was his sponsor. ). I think most Greeks don't care who their brother/sister thinks is cute as long as they are doing in a way that doesn't embarass the chapter (nobody wants to see anybody else making out, regardless of the gender makeup of the couple) and as long as they are involved with the chapter. I think Wisconsin schools, for the most part, are pretty liberal, and so it's not usually an issue.

[PSK480]

I can tell you from personal experience it's nothing to worry about. This past spring(03) we had an openly gay man pledge and become a brother. I can tell you he is one of the best examples of brotherhood to my chapter. He would do anything for the brotherhood. I think it's a non-issue for us now. We were split at first, but, we convinced everyone just to give him a chance and get to know him.

[aephi alum]

I personally would not have any problem at all with an openly gay sister. No one in my chapter was openly gay, but if someone had come out - she'd still be my sister.

I have seen some very homophobic incidents at my school involving other orgs, though.

There was some unpleasantness between two fraternities while I was an undergrad. A member of one fraternity came out, and his brothers really supported him... but the second fraternity allegedly painted some homophobic graffiti at the first fraternity's house.

There was also some unpleasantness within a sorority, where there was a sister who was very well liked, popular, was a chapter officer, etc. She came out, and suddenly her sisters wouldn't speak to her, and she was never elected to office again.

So I guess YMMV... but really, if you can't come out to your own sisters or brothers, who can you come out to?

[trisigmaAtl]

I'm on a small and very liberal campus, so it's not really a problem here. One of the other sororities here has several lesbian sisters (two of them actually dated for a long time, but that's irrelevant). The fraternity I'm a sweetheart of also has 3 or 4 openly gay brothers (whom I love), alot of them hold exec positions and are very accepted . I don't think it comes up as an issue during rush at all, it's not played up, but it's not played down either. It just is. The other fraternities have sometimes told rushees that being in that house will "make you gay" and make references to it during greek week stuff, but nothing too harsh ever happens. Nobody puts much stock in those kind of generalizations. I have no idea about other campuses though. I surely hope that no sisterhood would tear you away from your Independent friends, no matter what their orientation.

[DeltAlum]

If you believe statistics, about 10% of our population is gay, so in a chapter of 50, there are probably (potentially at least) 5 gay members, whether they admit it or not.

Frankly, any chapter who discriminates against gays is opening itself up for a lot of future trouble.

There are some ardent anti-gay members on GC, but I think you will find that most of us don't have a problem with gay members.

[sugar and spice]

Really, it all depends on the campus climate. If people there are generally prejudiced towards homosexuals, the Greeks will be too. If the campus is generally tolerant, the Greeks usually are as well. As GeekyPenguin said, most of the Wisconsin campuses are fairly liberal, and I know there's at least one fraternity man out here at Wisconsin, and most of the Greek organizations have been supportive. The same goes for the University of Minnesota, where I went last year -- there were at least two or three gay fraternity men who felt comfortable enough to share their "coming out to their fraternity" stories with the campus newspaper. They all said they were scared to come out, but once they did, their brothers hugged them and told them that they were supportive.

Unfortunately, there DOES seem to be a higher percentage of homophobes in the Greek community than in the rest of the world. But there are usually, at any campus, a number of Greek organizations that are accepting of alternative sexualities. I know that personally, I've NEVER heard one of my sisters say anything disparaging about homosexuals, and I can't imagine most -- if any -- of the other sorority girls here saying anything either.

[SigkapAlumWSU]

I know that most chapters here have at least one gay brother or sister, whether they are open of not. One of the biggest houses actually has about 4 openly gay guys, and it's just a non-issue for them. One of the guys in the house(he was straight) actually ran for and became our ASWSU vice pres. His running mate, our student body pres, was openly gay, so again, a non-issue. My freshman year, we had a sister who wasn't quite out of the closet, but if people figured it out, or asked her, she would say. Some people were very uncomfortable with it, but for the most part, things went ok. I think that it just depends, and there are always going to be those few, very homophobic people, who are just very narrowminded and rude. And there will be those people who don't even think it's an issue at all, so again, it just depends.

[33girl]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
If you believe statistics, about 10% of our population is gay, so in a chapter of 50, there are probably (potentially at least) 5 gay members, whether they admit it or not.

That's kind of like saying that since our population is 10% Asian or Mormon or whatever, that 10% of every chapter will have 10% of those groups. It just doesn't hold water. I mean, if there were any Mormons at Clarion period, they were hiding.

There are schools where groups "cluster" (BYU & Mormons being a basic example). I would guess that if you're gay and researching colleges, you're going to see if they have support groups, etc, and I would assume there are more gay people in general at those colleges. If a college is known for being on the intolerant side, unless it has a very special major that you can't find anywhere else, there probably won't be as many gay people there.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with gay brothers or sisters, but statistics don't tell the story either.

[sugar and spice]

Not to mention the fact that many gays and lesbians don't join Greek organizations because of the "homophobic" label that's been attached to them, and they assume they won't feel comfortable there. So to assume that every organization should be ten percent gay is an oversimplification.

[moe.ron]

Try going to, I think, lambda10.org. I'm not sure the exact website. It has to do with homosexuals in GLOs. I've been there once and it's very interesting reading. There are a few national organizations that have specifically outlawed discrimination according to sexual orientations. So if your organizations has it, the debate is a mood point legally. Of course, many chapters doesn't follow nationals by-laws policies to the teeth.

[zchi2]

Originally posted by 33girl
That's kind of like saying that since our population is 10% Asian or Mormon or whatever, that 10% of every chapter will have 10% of those groups. It just doesn't hold water. I mean, if there were any Mormons at Clarion period, they were hiding.

There are schools where groups "cluster" (BYU & Mormons being a basic example). I would guess that if you're gay and researching colleges, you're going to see if they have support groups, etc, and I would assume there are more gay people in general at those colleges. If a college is known for being on the intolerant side, unless it has a very special major that you can't find anywhere else, there probably won't be as many gay people there.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with gay brothers or sisters, but statistics don't tell the story either.

sugar and spice Not to mention the fact that many gays and lesbians don't join Greek organizations because of the "homophobic" label that's been attached to them, and they assume they won't feel comfortable there. So to assume that every organization should be ten percent gay is an oversimplification.

I think that some of you all are making the assumption that before people come to college or join an organization, they know that they are gay. Most people come to grips with their sexuality during college. There are a lot gay people who are in deep deep denial and they try to join greek organizations because they are trying to give an appearance of a "typical" straight person. I know a lot of gay people that joined a greek organization before they came out to others and to themselves and used to be some of the most homophobic people you would ever meet...