Will the Greek world ever desegregate?

[Alias23]

Other than the few Blacks who pledge mostly White frats/sororities and vice-versa, will there ever be desegregation in the Greek community to the point where the ratio of Whites to Blacks in a given frat/sorority is anywhere close to 50/50? Even 40/60? Or will cultural/social differences prevent that from happening? If you think it will happen, how close do you think we are, and how does that reflect upon our society as a whole?

What do you all think? Be honest.

[moe.ron]

Depend on a lot of factors. Most fraternities and sororities in the New York State (I can't comment on other states because I don't know their situations) are desegregate. My chapter are quit mixed, as also with the other fraternities on my campus. Also visiting other chapters within NY, it's the same thing. Most of the chapters I have visited are in the North East, so I can't comment much on other parts.

[SigmaChiCard]

I don't think that it's really so much of a greek issue as it is a general issue. I've honestly only got a few black friends and many of them I've lost touch with since we went seperate ways in college. I don't think it's for reasons of hatred or anything of that sort, I think it's a comfort thing. My friends always were knowing that they were welcome into any circle I was apart of, be there 30 or 0 other blacks, but I think many feel more comfortable associating with people more like them. To be honest, the majority of my friends are white males, as am I. The question I think could extend out to other ethnicities such as those of mexican decent, arab decent, and asian decent. Now while I'eve more asian friends than the others I think the general concern is that most people don't like to cross barriers self-imposed or not, and comfort is preferred to chance. that's just my view, but as I've said, I think it extends well beyond the greek system, but to the general nature of people themselves.

Cory

[FuzzieAlum]

While I like to think that someday we will be desegregated, I don't think it will ever be 50/50 in most organizations, just because that's not what the population breakdown is. The 2000 census said that 12.3% of the US population is black, 3.6% is Asian, and 75.1% is white. About 13% of the population, mostly whites, is Hispanic. Of course, these numbers vary dramatically by region of the country. I am pretty certain that the Asian population here in Seattle is a lot more than 4%.

Still, I'd like to see a day where race doesn't matter, at least as far as GLO membership. While there's progress out there, there's not always as much as we'd like.

[Alias23]

Good post SigmaChiCard.

I didn't mean to suggest that it was exclusive to the Greek world (which is why I asked how it reflects on our society). I agree with you that it is a general social issue, but it is magnified in frats/sororities because they are social by nature and divide individuals into groups.

Arya's comments show that the Greek world is indeed a reflection of the surrounding society, because the area in the north where Arya is located is more multicultural than the south, where I was born and raised. As a result, the fraternities and sororities there are more mixed. Attitudes toward diversity are also a factor and sometimes differ by region (generally speaking -- each individual obviously has their own views).

I also suppose that the racial make-up of a particular college/university is a major factor. More diverse universities creates an atmosphere more condusive to diverse frats/sororities. Taking steps to increase the number of minorities in colleges/universities can influence the mix of races in fraternities and sororities, but only if attitudes toward diversity are positive.

Good point about the population breakdown FuzzieAlum. What about the make-up even reflecting the breakdown of the general population? Do you think we'll get close anytime soon? Is it necessarily a bad thing if we don't?

[MIDWESTDIVA]

Originally posted by Alias23
Other than the few Blacks who pledge mostly White frats/sororities and vice-versa, will there ever be desegregation in the Greek community to the point where the ratio of Whites to Blacks in a given frat/sorority is anywhere close to 50/50? Even 40/60? Or will cultural/social differences prevent that from happening? If you think it will happen, how close do you think we are, and how does that reflect upon our society as a whole?

What do you all think? Be honest.

No.

[prettypoodle6]

I dont think the greek systems will become desegregated.

sigmachicard said it best - its about a level of comfort.

What we have to remember is that people from any race have to WANT to join orgs that are of a different race, whether the orgs. are treating them comfortably or not. We cant force ppl to do things, especially if ppl are talking slack from anyone or any race about doing it.
I hope someday it can be 50/50 and in someplaces it is. But I see it happening in the next 20- 50 years maybe.

[LexiKD]

Well, it couldn't ever be 50/50, like Fuzzie said it isn't possibe.

But if your school has a certian amount of any other ethnicity then it really should coinside with your group's make up. But I assume it cannot really ever be that perfect b/c of the NPHC groups on campus and how attractive they are.

[chopper816]

here, the nphc fraternities and sororities are a popular choice. My fraternity has had guys of many different backgrounds in it although its mostly been white men. From what ive seen, its either nphc or no greek organizations at all. also one thing to take into consideration, from the past where all greek organizations were pretty much all white people, they have legacies that will be white as well. how much of an effect that will have who knows, but its something to think about.

[SigkapAlumWSU]

I don't think it's really our choice. People who want to look into Greek life, whatever their ethnicity, are the ones making the choice. If no one encourages them, or even lets them know it's an option, then they won't. By the same coin, if people get out their and advertise and say we want you to be a prt of us, then they will. I don't think it's something that can be forced (yes, a reference to forced integration, but maybe I just don't understand it all). Besides, when did ethnicity become a qualifying reason for membership or not? I thought we ask people based on their ideals...

[shadokat]

I totally agree with UMGirl. There has to be African American women who want to join NPC sororities and Caucasian women who want to join NPHC sororities. It's that simple. I don't think the demand for this is even present in most places, because for as long as we've all been around, we've been told we're the white sororities and these are the black sororities and what not. Now mind you, at some schools, I'm sure that the minority population may want to join NPC groups and white women join NPHC groups, but I would think those definitelyl aren't the norms, but the exceptions.

But it would be nice one day UMGirl, aren't you an african american woman in an NPC sorority? You rock

Shadokat, you are absolutely correct. I am an african american in an NPC.
I dont think we will ever know if the demand actually is present or not. I knew of many minority woman who were interested in NPC orgs. but didnt join b/c of the slack that they could have come under for it. And im sure there are plenty of caucasian men or woman who probably would have joined an NPHC org if they knew they wouldnt come under fire for it. You do have people such as myself, who will say ya know what I can see your concer but, screw you i'll do what feels right for me. My african american friends at school were a lil hestitant at first whn i said i was looking at the NPC orgs. but when I came back from the fiest meeting and they asked how i was treated and were they nice, etc. they were all for me joining and even wanted to come to the parties. Even though we all have a voice, we all know that outside voices do play a certain role in our actions. After all these orgs are historically white , black or whatever. There maybe chapters that are all this or all that, but as an org most have a mixture of races.
For some reason kind of suprises me that ppl dont think it will ever be 50/50. This is just my opinion but its statements like that, that will keep it from ever becoming 50/50. It may not happen in our lifetime, but I think it will. Who knows what will happen, after all whoever thought that Hispanics/Latinos would ever be the majority and caucasians the minority? Whoever thought we would go into space? Who thought slavery would end? Ok ill stop
Here's what I say, It all starts with you. If your friend or better yet your child came home and told you that they wanted to join or had become involved with a GLO thats not historically there race, would you be bale to accept it? Think about it. Of couse your going to have the obvious hesitations, but when it comes down to it, can you deal?
We need to change our OWN attitudes before we can change society.

*gets off her " 2 cent, into this whole no bad karma/negativty thing" soapbox*

[SoTrue1920]

If you mean integration in terms of racial parity - there are multicultural sororities (and fraternities) out there already. Many of the professional fraternities and sororities are well integrated. Gamma Sigma Sigma sorority is well integrated, with chapters at predominately white institutions and historically black colleges and universities. Alpha Phi Omega is the same way. But desegregation doesn't technically mean "achieve racial parity" - an organization can consider itself desegregated when one member of a different race becomes a member.

I look at the sororities at UBC near me, and they have Asian, Indian, Black, and Caucasian members -- and the racial parity seems quite good. When I remember my days as an undergraduate, almost all of the NPC sororities had Asian members - therefore, they were desegregated, but not necessarily integrated. Almost all of the IFC fraternities had Asian members; one or two even had African American members, thus, they were desegregated. When I was an undergraduate, we had Caucasian members of Kappa Alpha Psi on my campus. One of the appointed national officers to my brother fraternity (Phi Beta Sigma) is white. I have Asian, Arabic, Caucasian, and multiethnic sorors.

So to answer your question in a roundabout way, the answer is "they already have desegregated, but they're not integrated." As to whether organizations will become fully integrated, I think that largely depends on local attitudes, exposure to different ethnicities, a scaling back on the whole "legacy" system, and -- I hate to bring it up here -- continued support for programs that work to increase and retain racial diversity on college campuses.

[Demon Knight]

First off I want to hi to everyone, and thank you for all your comments. This is an interesting topic. Being a Black man in a Fraternity founded by Educated White Males, I will say this.... Many fraternities have atleast one black person in them, or mixed of some variation. I believe it will be like that will all GLO not because they want it to happen, but because it will be law. Just as the term pledge has been challenged and changed my most organizations so will the racial differences. I believe the first step into doing so is to get rid of the term BGLO, GLO, and others and just say what it is. A Fraternity based on ideals to make the individual a better person to the community and to the school. I believe if there is a need to be different then let it be for what we stand for and the different ideals that are founders have set before us. That in my opinion is segregated enough.

Fraternally,
D