Hazing And Black Colleges: Is The Practice Of Hazing More Prevalent At HBCUs?

[SOM]

Hazing And Black Colleges: Is The Practice Of Hazing More Prevalent At HBCUs? Can The Practice Be Stopped?

Roland Martin and Prof. Ricky Jones join Anderson Cooper on AC360 to discuss the perceived culture of hazing at historically Black colleges and universities.

http://rolandmartinreports.com/blog/...stopped-video/

[DrPhil]

LOL @ the concept of this being an HBCU thing.

I like Alpha Man Roland Martin and I agree with what he said in the video. I had to rewatch the video because I apparently missed much of what he said about this not being an HBCU thing. He is saying that regardless of the institution, there are issues with hazing.

Dr. Jones has been studying HBCU and Black Greek hazing for a long time and is part of StopHazing.org. I know this is part of his research and community interests and goals. But, Kappas, get your frat. He was correct about the different type of hazing that is more likely to occur at predominantly white groups. However, that is still hazing. We are not ranking hazing, are we? If so, that gets back to how BGLOs have pledge processes that not every BGLOer considers "real hazing" and they use that rationale to defy the "pledge ban."

This was also a topic on Dr. Drew this evening. Needless to say, I changed the channel.

[knight_shadow]

This was all the buzz on my T_witter account. I was bummed I missed it, but I'm glad to see this link. Thanks for posting.

[LettersOnMyChst]

Seeing as how only a handful of colleges in the country are HBCUs and the fact that hazing as been going on for generations...

I'd have to say no.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by LettersOnMyChst

Seeing as how only a handful of colleges in the country are HBCUs and the fact that hazing as been going on for generations...

I'd have to say no.

How do these two things relate to the topic at hand??

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by 33girl

How do these two things relate to the topic at hand??

The person on CNN was essentially saying that hazing is a Black Greek thing.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

The person on CNN was essentially saying that hazing is a Black Greek thing.

Not really since he does discuss hazing at PWI's and NIC fraternities. The point he was trying to make was that hazing is more tolerated by administrators at HBCU's and seen as GLO's "just doing their thing".

[naraht]

One thing that I think may affect the situation with HBCUs/NPHCs and hazing...

I went to Carnegie-Mellon, which had 12 Fraternity Houses in the Fraternity owned quadrangle. At various times in the last 20 years, they've had from 11 to 14 recognized NIC fraternities on campus. Not long after I left, one of the Fraternities got removed from campus and its charter revoked for Hazing. It is entirely possible that that Fraternity may not come back for another 25 years or more. The fact that a Carnegie-Mellon University student would not be able to pledge that particular NIC fraternity would be viewed as largely irrelevant by the administration.

At an HBCU, OTOH, I can't see an administration doing that. At most an NPHC group will be removed from campus for 5 years in the event of non-fatal hazing and 10 for fatal hazing. This is especially true with the disconnect change over to the non-pledging intake process. Since all pledging is not done under the official auspices of the chapter, the hazing isn't either. So why pull the charter? There seems to be an unwillingness to be in a situation where a student would come to an HBCU and *not* have the opportunity to join an NPHC chapter which has ever existed there...

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by naraht

There seems to be an unwillingness to be in a situation where a student would come to an HBCU and *not* have the opportunity to join an NPHC chapter which has ever existed there...

That seems accurate.

In my experience as an Alpha, it seems the PWIs were more likely to kick us off campus forever. Or to at least say they would.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by LettersOnMyChst

Seeing as how only a handful of colleges in the country are HBCUs . . . .

Only a handful? The US Depargment of Education lists around 100. There are 8 just within a two-hour drive of where I live

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by naraht

At an HBCU, OTOH, I can't see an administration doing that. At most an NPHC group will be removed from campus for 5 years in the event of non-fatal hazing and 10 for fatal hazing. This is especially true with the disconnect change over to the non-pledging intake process. Since all pledging is not done under the official auspices of the chapter, the hazing isn't either. So why pull the charter? There seems to be an unwillingness to be in a situation where a student would come to an HBCU and *not* have the opportunity to join an NPHC chapter which has ever existed there...

I see what you mean. Considering the relatively lower number of HBCUs, and active NPHC chapters at HBCUs, there is a higher risk of revoking charters at HBCUs than at PWIs. In a non-fatal hazing incident, HBCU administrations that have good relationships with the NPHC regional/district, local, and/or national bodies often work with the organizations to find the best course of action. This is a negotiation process where the HBCU often tries to see what the NPHC org has in mind but the ultimate decision is on the HBCU. Many NPHCers at the graduate and collegiate levels think it is stupid to revoke charters for certain hazing incidents, especially when you can simply put a chapter on suspension until all the idiot current members graduate. Punishing members and putting chapters on suspension for a few years (or having the chapter's membership intake taken over by the graduate chapter) usually works. HBCUs often know that whereas the PWIs that I attended appeared not give a damn.

Which brings me to my next point: This is not what you were saying but some may take your post to imply that HBCUs are therefore more tolerant of hazing as part of HBCU culture. That is problematic because it operates under the assumption that how PWIs (and NPC and NIC) do it is the standard and anything different than that standard is deficient. Different is not deficient. I believe that forms of hazing are accepted at many, if not most, colleges and universities as part of the campus cultures. There were forms of hazing for non-Greeks and Greeks at the PWIs that I attended that were not challenged until after someone got hurt or killed. The PWIs that I attended were more lenient on the NPCs and NICs because how they operated was "familiar" and "normal" whereas NPHC GLOs could get in trouble for darn near everything. It is wonderful that we had regional and national bodies to assist us because, being the minority, all eyes were often on us for the smallest things. Cultural practices that even our national bodies approved of were questioned by the PWIs to the point where we started getting approval to hold events off campus.

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Only a handful? The US Depargment of Education lists around 100. There are 8 just within a two-hour drive of where I live

That is arguably a "handful" in comparison to the total number of colleges and universities in the United States of America. The small percentage, which some would dramatically call a "handful," of HBCUs is part of the history and present day significance of HBCUs

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Many NPHCers at the graduate and collegiate levels think it is stupid to revoke charters for certain hazing incidents, especially when you can simply put a chapter on suspension until all the idiot current members graduate. Punishing members and putting chapters on suspension for a few years (or having the chapter's membership intake taken over by the graduate chapter) usually works. HBCUs often know that whereas the PWIs that I attended appeared not give a damn.

This is EXACTLY it, especially the bolded. HBCU administrators are, I would wager, far more likely to have come into contact with the good things that the NPHC groups do and realize that it is the PEOPLE, not the organization, that are screwing up. A lot of PWIs* have administrators who may have come from a place where they had NO contact with Greek orgs. So they just assume the whole org is bad and can't be fixed, ever.

*I almost typed PWI college. PIN number for your MAC card, anyone?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

That is arguably a "handful" in comparison to the total number of colleges and universities in the United States of America. The small percentage, which some would dramatically call a "handful," of HBCUs is part of the history and present day significance of HBCUs

Very true. When my all-too-often too-literal mind sees "handful" without a qualifier (such as "comparative handful" or "handful in proportion to"), I read it as meaning a very small amount period.

[Cen1aur 1963]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

We are not ranking hazing, are we? If so, that gets back to how BGLOs have pledge processes that not every BGLOer considers "real hazing" and they use that rationale to defy the "pledge ban."

I agree with this.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I see what you mean. Considering the relatively lower number of HBCUs, and active NPHC chapters at HBCUs, there is a higher risk of revoking charters at HBCUs than at PWIs. In a non-fatal hazing incident, HBCU administrations that have good relationships with the NPHC regional/district, local, and/or national bodies often work with the organizations to find the best course of action. This is a negotiation process where the HBCU often tries to see what the NPHC org has in mind but the ultimate decision is on the HBCU. Many NPHCers at the graduate and collegiate levels think it is stupid to revoke charters for certain hazing incidents, especially when you can simply put a chapter on suspension until all the idiot current members graduate. Punishing members and putting chapters on suspension for a few years (or having the chapter's membership intake taken over by the graduate chapter) usually works. HBCUs often know that whereas the PWIs that I attended appeared not give a damn.

Which brings me to my next point: This is not what you were saying but some may take your post to imply that HBCUs are therefore more tolerant of hazing as part of HBCU culture. That is problematic because it operates under the assumption that how PWIs (and NPC and NIC) do it is the standard and anything different than that standard is deficient. Different is not deficient. I believe that forms of hazing are accepted at many, if not most, colleges and universities as part of the campus cultures. There were forms of hazing for non-Greeks and Greeks at the PWIs that I attended that were not challenged until after someone got hurt or killed. The PWIs that I attended were more lenient on the NPCs and NICs because how they operated was "familiar" and "normal" whereas NPHC GLOs could get in trouble for darn near everything. It is wonderful that we had regional and national bodies to assist us because, being the minority, all eyes were often on us for the smallest things. Cultural practices that even our national bodies approved of were questioned by the PWIs to the point where we started getting approval to hold events off campus.

I think we agree that the differences between HWI/PWIs and HBCUs cause a difference in the likelihood of a charter being completely nuked since the NPHC fraternity or sorority has additional options leading to, perhaps, a more nuanced approach. Also, NIC housing corporation is unlikely to keep a house for the possibility of returning to campus in 5 years (unless they can rent it to another Fraternity), and as I indicated before, unless you are looking at one of the largest Universities, there is always another NIC fraternity that can replace it.

The concept of what is familiar leads back to the discussion that has been had *many* times here as to how NIC hazing is different than NPHC hazing. I don't know if you can really compare an NIC fraternity putting a pledge in the hospital for 3 days with alcohol poisoning with putting an NPHC fraternity a pledge in the hospital for 3 days with necrotic tissue on the legs and buttocks. However administrators at all schools have to do so, and the question of whether those who hazed were themselves drunk at the time is brought up. (and one fits nicely into the legal definition of assault and the other doesn't)

I agree with the familiar issue. NIC fraternity getting the pledges put on the musical Oklahoma (I can't think of a musical less NPHC oriented), is just fine, having an NPHC fraternity getting the pledges to do probate show, not. (Note, could someone from an NPHC fraternity or sorority *please* create a Wikipedia entry for a Probate show) And trying to explain the concept of a Plot...