The Confederate Flag

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by the article

A year ago, dozens marched to protest the Confederate flag a white woman flew from her porch in a historically black Southern neighborhood. After someone threw a rock at her porch, she put up a wooden lattice. That was just the start of the building.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44667234...ife/?GT1=43001

[DrPhil]

This is all so cliche`.

I see Ms. Caddell's point. There is a rich history and those who display the flag (including Blacks) are not automatically racist. However, she knows that she now lives in an historically and predominantly Black neighborhood. Respect the environment and the overarching culture of this environment. The fact that she refuses to do so, as far as I'm concerned, is a display of white privilege.

Many Blacks who see the Confederate Flag do a double-take at least to see who is displaying the flag. Most Blacks, who live in areas where people still display the flag, have learned to ignore it. This is not a matter of a misunderstanding. The Confederate Flag does represent the negative despite its rich history and how proud some people are of it.

The neighbor who threw a rock at her porch is a complete dumbass.

[thetaj]

It's incredibly common in the south, and usually denotes something more along the lines of "southern pride" than blatant racism. I still think it's absurd. Anyone else seen the truly immense one flying on I-75 just north of the Florida state line? It's freakin HUGE

[preciousjeni]

This line

Local officials have said she has the right to fly the flag, while her neighbors have the right to protest. And build fences.

made me lol. The wording of it, I mean.

Anyway, I cosign all of this:

Originally Posted by DrPhil

This is all so cliche`.

I see Ms. Caddell's point. There is a rich history and those who display the flag (including Blacks) are not automatically racist. However, she knows that she now lives in an historically and predominantly Black neighborhood. Respect the environment and the overarching culture of this environment. The fact that she refuses to do so, as far as I'm concerned, is a display of white privilege.

Many Blacks who see the Confederate Flag do a double-take at least to see who is displaying the flag. Most Blacks, who live in areas where people still display the flag, have learned to ignore it. This is not a matter of a misunderstanding. The Confederate Flag does represent the negative despite its rich history and how proud some people are of it.

The neighbor who threw a rock at her porch is a complete dumbass.

and would further say that this issue stopped being about her right to fly a flag on her property when she antagonistically elevated it over the fence line. She needs her white privilege bubble burst.

[Optimus Prime]

Sure, she has a right to fly it. I wouldn't. It's always nice to be respectful of your neighbors and compromise. They built the fence, leave the flag where it is; no need to raise it higher.

[joliebelle]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44667234...ife/?GT1=43001

I just knew that this was in SC before I even clicked on the article

Originally Posted by DrPhil

This is all so cliche`.

I see Ms. Caddell's point. There is a rich history and those who display the flag (including Blacks) are not automatically racist. However, she knows that she now lives in an historically and predominantly Black neighborhood. Respect the environment and the overarching culture of this environment. The fact that she refuses to do so, as far as I'm concerned, is a display of white privilege.

Many Blacks who see the Confederate Flag do a double-take at least to see who is displaying the flag. Most Blacks, who live in areas where people still display the flag, have learned to ignore it. This is not a matter of a misunderstanding. The Confederate Flag does represent the negative despite its rich history and how proud some people are of it.

The neighbor who threw a rock at her porch is a complete dumbass.

You've said everything that I would have said...only better

[*winter*]

Meh. Whenever I see a Confederate flag, my first thought is, "get over it." But then again, I live up North, and people here primarily use them to alert others that they are a huge racist and if a black person steps foot on their property, they are going to put their machine gun on "burst."

I work in a rural area, and the whole racism thing is an undercurrent in life there. I'm white, but I've never had a positive encounter with someone who was, in any way, sporting a Confederate flag. Those site visits usually don't end well, because such people don't usually have enlightened views about anything- the government, women, the list just goes on.

I can understand the whole Southern Pride thing...to a point. I'm proud that I'm a German-American, but I also understand flying a Nazi flag probably wouldn't be the best way to go about expressing this pride. I just think that the Confederate flag is something that offends or bothers so many people (black and white), so find another emblem.

Most people in this part of the country understand the difficult history and choose something else. Others keep it around, perhaps even BECAUSE it offends people- like "screw you, I don't care if you are offended, here is my flag!" Basically sounds like the lady in this article fits this category...That's what I have a problem with, knowing it offends someone based on a very traumatic history, and still blazing on and insiting on sticking it in everyone's faces...

I'd like to see her try that little stunt in a city up North.

[33girl]

^This entire post is pretty much spot on.

If you fly a Confederate flag above the Mason-Dixon, you'd better be able to whip out your great great great grandpa's commendation from the Confederate army - i.e. show me that it really is an honoring history thing - or I'm just going to assume you're a racist dickhead. And I'll usually be assuming right.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by *winter*

I'd like to see her try that little stunt in a city up North.

Are you saying the outcome would be different?

[katydidKD]

Yeah, I was just going to say before others did, up here (in the North) it means you are racist. Flying that above the mason-dixon would make you a pariah.

[MysticCat]

Co-sign this:

Originally Posted by DrPhil

This is all so cliche`.

I see Ms. Caddell's point. There is a rich history and those who display the flag (including Blacks) are not automatically racist. However, she knows that she now lives in an historically and predominantly Black neighborhood. Respect the environment and the overarching culture of this environment. The fact that she refuses to do so, as far as I'm concerned, is a display of white privilege.

Many Blacks who see the Confederate Flag do a double-take at least to see who is displaying the flag. Most Blacks, who live in areas where people still display the flag, have learned to ignore it. This is not a matter of a misunderstanding. The Confederate Flag does represent the negative despite its rich history and how proud some people are of it.

The neighbor who threw a rock at her porch is a complete dumbass.

But I feel the need to point out -- there is no such thing as the Confederate flag. There were three national flags of the Confederate States of America before the war was over. There was also the flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, which became known as the Confederate Battle Flag. This seems to be the one that can be seen in the picture, and it is similar but not identical to the flag typically called "the Confederate flag" (or the Rebel flag) -- which ironically was never a national flag of the CSA, though it did serve as a naval jack for a few years. It was this flag that the KKK and other groups latched onto.

[SWTXBelle]

Happy to meet you, winter. Hope you can regard this as a positive encounter.
I am a non-racist bearer of C.S.A. flags - although I favor the 3rd National myself.
One of my many C.S.A. ancestors was Captain David Cartwright Jackson, but I can show you my U.D.C. card if need be, 33girl.
I was a featured speaker at a Sam Davis Camp this summer - my topic was southern linguistics. It's not always just about The War - in many, many cases - including the many learned (as in university professors and PhDs I know through SCV, UDC and LOS) ladies and gentlemen I know in heritage groups - it is also about southern culture.(Not an oxymoron) After 4 years in New Jersey I can say that most above the Mason-Dixon don't get that - hence the whole "Why don't they just get over it" thing, which is insulting in its idiocy. It's right up there with "Well, at least we won The War!" which always made me wonder why those New Jersyians couldn't come up with anything in defense of themselves other than an event which occurred over 100 years ago.
Other than that, I don't want to disrupt the southern hate-in developing here, and I am going to resolve to stay away from news and politics. She flew the flag, the neighbors didn't like it, they built the fences, she didn't like it, she made sure she could continue to exercise her free speech rights. I don't get why this is "news". Happy stereotyping.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Happy to meet you, winter. Hope you can regard this as a positive encounter.
I am a non-racist bearer of C.S.A. flags - although I favor the 3rd National myself.
One of my many C.S.A. ancestors was Captain David Cartwright Jackson, but I can show you my U.D.C. card if need be, 33girl.
I was a featured speaker at a Sam Davis Camp this summer - my topic was southern linguistics. It's not always just about The War - in many, many cases - including the many learned (as in university professors and PhDs I know through SCV, UDC and LOS) ladies and gentlemen I know in heritage groups - it is also about southern culture.(Not an oxymoron) After 4 years in New Jersey I can say that most above the Mason-Dixon don't get that - hence the whole "Why don't they just get over it" thing, which is insulting in its idiocy. It's right up there with "Well, at least we won The War!" which always made me wonder why those New Jersyians couldn't come up with anything in defense of themselves other than an event which occurred over 100 years ago.

Co-sign all of this, too.

Other than that, I don't want to disrupt the southern hate-in developing here, and I am going to resolve to stay away from news and politics. She flew the flag, the neighbors didn't like it, they built the fences, she didn't like it, she made sure she could continue to exercise her free speech rights. I don't get why this is "news". Happy stereotyping.

I agree about the stereotyping of Southerners. My disagreement has to do with the free speech rights part. No doubt, she has that right. But for the life of me, I don't understand why someone would choose to do that in a way that they know (or certainly should know) will be deeply and understandably offensive to their neighbors.

If it's important to me, I'll find a way a to express myself that doesn't simultaneously offend those who live around me -- such as by occasionally flying a flag (I fly different kinds of flags all the time) that carries the same (or more) meaning for me but that doesn't come with all of the baggage and connotations of "the Confederate flag."

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Co-sign this:

But I feel the need to point out -- there is no such thing as the Confederate flag. There were three national flags of the Confederate States of America before the war was over. There was also the flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, which became known as the Confederate Battle Flag. This seems to be the one that can be seen in the picture, and it is similar but not identical to the flag typically called "the Confederate flag" (or the Rebel flag) -- which ironically was never a national flag of the CSA, though it did serve as a naval jack for a few years. It was this flag that the KKK and other groups latched onto.

Thanks, nerd.

Thank you, SWTXBelle. Very well said. I do not like the use of "all" for such things. There are people (nonracists and racists) who display one of ( @ MysticCat) the Confederate Flags above the Mason-Dixon line with outcomes that do not differ from what would happen below the Mason-Dixon line.

News stories will only cover the controvery when people are around those who disagree with them. News stories will not cover the day-to-day of people displaying flags across the country with little to no backlash.

With that said, this particular woman was being an asshole and doing it to prove she has the right to do it.

[33girl]

I never think "why don't they get over it" when I see it here. I think "that person hates black people and thinks this is more socially acceptable than posting a sign that reads 'n*****s please die'." Unfortunately, SWTXBelle, for the people like you who DO fly it for other reasons, they have been eclipsed by the racists. I'm not sure how rural your town is, but winter's right - in a lot of areas, it's just a kind of shorthand. (Rather like the rainbow flags on gay-friendly establishments.)