Racial differences in Hazing.

[naraht]

When I see examples of Hazing for various groups, the types of Hazing differ *greatly* by race and gender.

The following are Heavy tendencies (not always true, but fairly often)
White Fraternities: Hazing generaaly involes alcohol and death occur due to sheer alcohol poisoning. Entire Hazing event takes place within 24 hours.

Black Fraternities: Hazing is generally Physical (with some mental/emotional) stress. Alcohol generally not factor. Physical stress of pledging often long term.

White Sororities: Hazing incidents relatively rare. Often almost mental/emotional involving looks/weight

Black Sororities: Similar to White Sororities, additional physical stresses.

Do you think this is accurate, and does that indicate that work to prevent hazing needs to be tailored to race and gender?


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Naraht
Alpha Phi Omega Alumni Volunteer

[12dn94dst]

Hmm, interesting & pretty much accurate, although I wouldn't paint women with a "relatively harmless" brush. The racial differences in hazing is something I've been aware of since I started college. I never understood why there is a "preoccupation" with drinking with my "white" greek counterparts. Not to say that "black" greeks don't drink. It's just very rare for a drinking game to be the theme for one of our parties.

Once we learn that there IS a difference between hazing & pledging, once we learn that pledging is not going to be this totally warm & fuzzy time where everyone is nice & welcomes you just because you asked we'll all be better off.

[sigmagrrl]

Originally posted by 12dn94dst:
Once we learn that pledging is not going to be this totally warm & fuzzy time where everyone is nice & welcomes you just because you asked we'll all be better off.

This statement truly disturbs me! Why ISN'T the new member period a time of bonding and friendship to you?? The new member period should not be filled with stress and anxiety , nor should it be a time of doubt in a woman's life. It should be a time when all of her reasons for joining are affirmed and validated and she becomes comfortable with her new family...



[This message has been edited by sigmagrrl (edited April 28, 2001).]

[Serenity]

Originally posted by sigmagrrl:
This statement truly disturbs me! Why ISN'T the new member period a time of bonding and friendship to you?? The new member period should not be filled with stress and anxiety , nor should it be a time of doubt in a woman's life. It should be a time when all of her reasons for joining are affirmed and validated and she becomes comfortable with her new family... [This message has been edited by sigmagrrl (edited April 28, 2001).]

Sigmagrrl, I don't see why this is disturbing to you. College in general is not all warm and fuzzy, so why should pledging be any different? There are all types of stressors out there, it's a part of life. If you are in college and pledging, which is often the case, then you will be stressed. Period. I know when I was on line I had a job, classes, family responsibilities, etc. plus I had to complete all the requirements needed to be initiatiated. They have a word for that: multi-tasking. Yes, I was stressed. And?

In addition, just because you are put under "stress/anxiety" while pledging does not mean you aren't creating friendships and/or bonding with your linesisters or big sisters. Often times the strongest relationships are relationships created in times of stress and anxiety.

Sigmagrrl, I am not talking about creating stress by the threat/fear of physical punishment. That is something different altogether. I am sure 12dn94dst wasn't speaking about that either. Correct me if I am wrong, Miss Kelli.

I think the problem is that whenever an individual in a BGLO talks about "stress/anxiety" while pledging it is often taken to mean beating the crap out of someone. There is a diffrence.

[12dn94dst]

Bingo Serenity!

Sigmagrrl, read what I typed, instead of reading INTO what I typed.

The effective word in that statement is TOTALLY. I don't think any of us leads drama & stress free lives. If you do, let me know how you do it. Nowhere did I say or suggest that the pledge period should not be one of bonding and friendship. Afterall, that's one of the main points of pledging, to bond with your line sisters and your big sisters. Take that away and you've removed a lot of the fun. What I DID suggest is it's not going to be easy, nor should it be. Life in general is not all that easy.

[This message has been edited by 12dn94dst (edited April 28, 2001).]

[33girl]

Kelli and Serenity - THANK YOU!! You hit the nail SO on the head!

Some groups try to "shield" their pledges from anything difficult or unpleasant, for fear it'll somehow get twisted into hazing. Some groups say "oh it's OK if you can't show up, just try to do what you can" (and we all know there are people who given an inch, will take a mile).

Then comes initiation day. Then comes the day after initiation day. "Oh, by the way, we're in debt and you have to raise (insert gigantic amount here) by the end of the semester...by the way, 3 sisters just quit their positions and you're the new social chair...by the way, we have 4 mandatory events this week and if you don't go you'll get fined..." - well, I think you all know where I am going. I think one of the points of the pledge period is to help you to learn time management. If you know you have to get x, y, & z done, you'll find a way to get it done. Plus you have to keep your grades up or you won't be able to initiate. If you can't handle all that, better to learn before you initiate then become a full member and find out it is too much for you.

Physical or mental anguish that is PURPOSELY inflicted should never be part of any pledge period. However, to imply to a rushee that once she signs her bid everything is roses and daisies, is just not for real.

FWIW, the semester I pledged was a stressful time in my life, but that was due to crap that was there before I ever walked into a rush party, NOT anything with the sisters. In fact, if I had wised up and opened up earlier, they could have saved me a lot of the things I went through.

[LexiKD]

I don't even want to get started. I think the other girls have coverd it all, but all I will say is, I was not hazed in any way and my new member period wasn't warm and fuzzy all the time either.
It was difficult to learn about every acpect of sorority life, be an example, pass tests, and manage time, but I still feel as if I deserved my membership. I don't have to be abused to feel I earned something.

[shadokat]

The BGLOs on my campus had drinking theme parties just like the GLOs did. At least the fraternities anyways.

Originally posted by 12dn94dst:
Hmm, interesting & pretty much accurate, although I wouldn't paint women with a "relatively harmless" brush. The racial differences in hazing is something I've been aware of since I started college. I never understood why there is a "preoccupation" with drinking with my "white" greek counterparts. Not to say that "black" greeks don't drink. It's just very rare for a drinking game to be the theme for one of our parties.

Once we learn that there IS a difference between hazing & pledging, once we learn that pledging is not going to be this totally warm & fuzzy time where everyone is nice & welcomes you just because you asked we'll all be better off.

[sigmagrrl]

I can see where you are coming from with the definition of stress and anxiety. I am glad you clarified that for me...But I do still have reservations about it because I feel that the new member period and sisterhood is COMPLETELY marketed this way at recruitment. So, in essence, I guess what I am saying is: are we being truthful when meeting prospective members? Do we tell them that being a sister involves good times and bad, but it is how the sisterhood/brotherhood handles these stressful times TOGETHER that make all the difference in how you will remember this time of your life?? Or do we play that Vitamin C song, give them cake and balloons, and then WHAM! Here's what sisterhood is NOT like??? I am speaking from a personal note because I have experienced these negative sides and think that these experiences have affected the sisterhood to this day (7 years later)!! I don't think I am being unrealistic, but I do have good hindsight. I know that if we had been told that pledging can be a stressful time, I would have been better prepared for those stressors (balancing homework/internship/studying with new member activities)...

[mccoyred]

Well, this perception may be true with NPC/IFC orgs but with NPHC and other HBGLOs (and some LGLOs as well), stress is expected and demanded.

Many times, people come on the board saying that they expect to be hazed. They say that because they do not know the difference between hazing and pledging. They are expecting it not to be easy and it shouldn't.

When you hear expressions like 'crossing the burning sands' and 'trial by fire', even 'taking wood' (often times literally but sometimes not) you know that your process is expected to be challenging and hard.

BUT the pledging is designed to help you realize your strengths and weakness as well as bond with your ls/lb and bs/bb. It is also designed to teach you the importance of time management, group think, hard work and service to others.

All this is to prepare you for the work in the org AFTER you cross, which is when the REAL pledging begins....there is no PR campaign here!

Originally posted by sigmagrrl:
I can see where you are coming from with the definition of stress and anxiety. I am glad you clarified that for me...But I do still have reservations about it because I feel that the new member period and sisterhood is COMPLETELY marketed this way at recruitment. So, in essence, I guess what I am saying is: are we being truthful when meeting prospective members? Do we tell them that being a sister involves good times and bad, but it is how the sisterhood/brotherhood handles these stressful times TOGETHER that make all the difference in how you will remember this time of your life?? Or do we play that Vitamin C song, give them cake and balloons, and then WHAM! Here's what sisterhood is NOT like??? I am speaking from a personal note because I have experienced these negative sides and think that these experiences have affected the sisterhood to this day (7 years later)!! I don't think I am being unrealistic, but I do have good hindsight. I know that if we had been told that pledging can be a stressful time, I would have been better prepared for those stressors (balancing homework/internship/studying with new member activities)...

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MCCOYRED
Mu Psi '86
BaltCo Alumnae

Dynamic...Salient...Temperate...Since 1913

[12dn94dst]

Originally posted by shadokat:
The BGLOs on my campus had drinking theme parties just like the GLOs did. At least the fraternities anyways.

here we go again. i didn't say "never" i said "very rare," meaning it does happen, just not often.

Getting back to the topic at hand, why not inform those rushing that if they do make it to be a new/associate member that it will be extra work? it's the truth, isn't it? why not give them an idea of what being a member is like? I'm not trying to be facetious (for once), I'd really like to know. Is it against the rules?

[33girl]

Here I go, one more argument in favor of DEFERRED RUSH.

When I pledged I had seen women on my floor go through rush and their pledge periods and I KNEW it was going to be a lot of time and a lot of work. I knew which sorority's pledges were coming home drunk at 4 AM on a school night, who was happy with her pledging, and who was not. I also got to see who did personality 180's after they joined. I was a first generation college student with no clue about anything Greek so it was a really helpful eye-opener. I never, ever thought my pledge period was going to be peaches and cream and I am eternally grateful that I was able to observe, which I might not have had my school not had deferred rush.

sigmagrrl, I agree completely that we should think twice about what we are "selling" at rush. Sometimes I think "responsibility" has become a dirty word and it is definitely one that women need to hear more often at rush. They need to know this isn't the high school library club where you show up for 2 periods a week and you're done.* (2 cent vent) The focus on quantity needs to go for once and for all and be replaced by a focus on QUALITY and COMMITMENT.

*This reference is in no way a disparagement towards past, present or future Library Club members.

[ChaosDST]

I know the original poster stated that the racial differences in hazing do not apply across the board. This is a good disclaimer, because I completely disagree with the assesment of Black sorority hazing. I have not seen where Black sorority hazing has anything to do with looks and weight. I see it as being more of what was attributed to Black fraternities. I am not saying that this is something to brag about, but I think we want to get a more accurate depiction of what is really going on out there.
To a certain extent, I agree that HBGLOs and WGLOs should be treated differently. There are huge differences between the two. In that regard, I see where Black and white hazing may vary.
I think, particularly at white schools, the school needs to better understand HBGLOs and see that we can not be expected to behave--or even conduct membership intake--as our white counterparts. That may deviate from the initial discussion, but....

[ChaosDST]

If there are HBGLOs incorporating drinking parties and what not in the pledge process...they need to be SMACKED SILLY. The HBGLO pledge process has nothing to do with how many socials/parties the prospect can attend. Moreso, the prospect will NOT be at parties or social functions--they won't have the time or the luxury. If you ever see a prospect for HBGLO membership out having fun and at social functions--they're NOT pledging.

[lovelyivy84]

ChaosDST YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD!!! Pledging does not mean fun, it means work. I think (I HOPE) that the poster was referring however, to post-pledge and social activities. I have a problem with that as well. If my chapter even THOUGHT about having alchohol at one of our functions our grad advisor would snatch those pearls so fast.....(she is no joke). That is not what we are about, and I take such offense to the thought that chapter monies for any chapter of any BGLO might be going towards alchohol instead of work in the comunity....it is disgusting to me.