Joking About Hazing

[excelblue]

One of the questions I've always had is where to draw the line when it comes to joking about some issues. For example, it's perfectly fine (and even a good thing) to joke on light topics such as food, but it's not OK to joke about recent deaths. The question is: where do you draw the line for joking about hazing?

For my chapter, it's basically: it's OK to privately joke about hazing to brothers, but not OK to joke about it to pledges, as that can be considered psychological hazing. However, there has been a couple issues where the joke starts to get taken seriously and it only gets stopped at the last minute. For those things, they're off-limits forever. An example from my chapter would be pledge nicknames, which started as a joke, but eventually they started becoming "official" and it took a fallout (thankfully resolved) before nicknames were banned (and solidified by a vote).

Where do you draw the line?

[Alumiyum]

I say just don't do it. The definition of hazing is so restrictive, and new members are (generally) skittish at even the most ridiculous joke that it's better safe than sorry. When I was an active I would stamp out the joking when I heard it. All it would take is one new member overhearing it without the context of "haha this is so effing ridiculous" to put the entire chapter in danger...for no reason at all. So why risk it?

[exlurker]

Maybe an example of how "joking about hazing" doesn't look good -- the IFC at the University of Kansas has got itself into the news, and not in a good way, for "hazing":

http://www.kansan.com/news/2011/feb/03/ifc-hazing/?news

Multiple executive board members of the Interfraternity Council (IFC), the governing body for fraternities, said they were willing to subject themselves to a vote to remove themselves from the council, following a hazing incident that occurred in November.

The declarations came at an IFC meeting . . . that served as a forum for fraternity members and others to question council members about the hazing incident, which occurred after a turnover ceremony between the 2010 IFC council to the 2011 IFC council.

. . . According to a December report by Associate Vice Provost for Student Success Lori Reesor, members of the council engaged in paddling on Nov. 18. The report said that no new executive board members were paddled by former members and that only former members had paddled each other.
None of the former executive board members said he was hurt or forced into paddling, the report said.

. . . “They talked about this activity was typical ‘guy’ behavior like hitting each other on the arm. They understand now that this activity does not look good at all and they apologized for their actions.”

During the meeting, council members reviewed recommended sanctions in the report, many of which are being implemented, council members said.
Among the sanctions listed are the removal of paddles from IFC office space and that paddles should not be purchased with IFC funds or used at IFC events.

Outgoing IFC president Jake Droge, senior from Wichita, said that an anti-hazing consultant would also be hired and that the turnover ceremony would be different next year. . . .

And from the Kansas City Star's site:

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/02/05...ning-body.html

[ScarletBlueGold]

A similar issue has come up in our Chapter.

A few of the Brothers would joke around that we were going to make the pledges have sex with a goat for initiation (I know, right?).

While most of the pledges immediately caught on that it was a joke, there were a few that genuinely thought they were going to have to do it to get into the Fraternity.

I don't know where legislating against that kind of behavior gets most people, but I've found that a stern reminder during the first Chapter meeting after the pinning ceremony usually does the trick.

(Once again before the Big Bro ceremony, and then once more at initiation are probably good ideas too)

The hardest people to convince not to haze are the alumni. My Chapter used to haze, and a lot of alumni simply refuse to accept the fact that we no longer do. I would be curious to see what other Chapters with this problem do to stop alumni from this kind of behavior.

[Kevin]

As chapter advisor, I give a speech to potential candidates after bid day. I cover a multitude of topics, there might even be a handout next semester. One of the things I cover is hazing. I explain what hazing is and what it isn't. That there are things which can be required of new members who are seeking initiation and other things which can't. I explain to them the chain of command--that if they are uncomfortable about something or just need to ask a question, they go to their big bro, then to the pledge marshal, then to the Commander [president], then to me if they aren't comfortable with any of the others, and finally, they can call Headquarters, and that the number to HQ is posted in the house. I pass out my business card and have them write my cell on the back.

In a little over 2 years as advisor, I have yet to have a candidate call me thinking they've been hazed.

Education works. If they're educated, hopefully they know the difference between a joke and real hazing. And it's probably not realistic to expect a bunch of 18-21 year fraternity men to not joke about hazing, even if it doesn't really happen. It's just part of the culture they were raised in.

[agzg]

IMO, it's like jokes about other sensitive topics. Only OK if you know for a fact that no one in your company will be offended and no one outside of your company will overhear.