Hand Matching vs. Computer Based Systems

Panhelgirl321 · #1 09-09-2010, 11:06 AM

Hello!

I go to Case Western Reserve University and I am the VP Membership on the Panhellenic Council. We currently use a hand matching system and are looking into implementing ICS or Innova. It has caused a lot of debate with the sororities, and I am trying to get information from schools who use the system. Some of the biggest concerns are that girls are going to dropped more from the process and it will make the process more selective. A lot of our chapters don't match well after the first weekend and we go back and call them to see if they will accept girls back and many girls would not be in a chapter if we did not call. How does your school like your computer system?

Thanks!

DeltaBetaBaby · #2 09-09-2010, 11:28 AM

Can you be a little clearer on your process? You are saying that after the first invitational round, a lot of women have few invites to the second invitation round, so you hand-place them in additional parties?

How do you currently set release figures? I'm wondering if that is the issue. With computer matching, the more popular chapters are allowed fewer invites, so it should balance out. I won't get mathy, here, but the bottom line is that women should have plenty of invites, as long as they are willing to consider the chapters who have historically had lower returns.

AXOrushadvisor · #3 09-09-2010, 11:33 AM

We have been using Innova for several years now. On our campus, we place more women and more chapters make quota. The great thing, in my opinion, about Innova is that it forces PNM's to take a second look at Chapters and in some cases for Chapters to take a second look at PNM's. It is WAY easier and less time consuming then hand bid matching. You get tons of statistics with Innnova too. They will tell you how many women ranked your Chapter 1, 2, 3 and what % came back (just makes it nice you don't have to figure it) and then the percentage you took off your first list and the percentage you took off the second. Plus it is all paperless. I really can not think of a con to going with Innova. I think the concerns are unfounded we have found the complete opposite. Change is hard, but I think this would benefit you guys.

Panhelgirl321 · #4 09-09-2010, 12:21 PM

At our school, we have recruitment for two weekends. The first weekend the girls meet all of the chapters. After that weekend, they rank their preferences and the chapters give us their first and second lists. Many of the chapters want the same girls, and a lot of times the girls that the chapters want are not interested in them at all. I guess our directors biggest concern is that since the chapters do not pick the girls that want to go back to their parties, the PNM's will be dropped and the chapter's will see less girls. Does that make sense? Depending on how the chapter does the previous year depends how many PNM's they are allowed to have back the second weekend.

Thanks for all of your help!

Titchou · #5 09-09-2010, 12:33 PM

Obviously your campus is not using RFM. Perhaps talking with your NPC area adviser would be a good step also. But I've done hand matching before and would never go back to it. The campus I'm at now uses ICS and it works wonderfully. And RFM has a thing call flex lists that really help ensure that the appropriate number of women get invites. Look into it.

Drolefille · #6 09-09-2010, 12:53 PM

It's not the computer system but the release method you're using, that's what people mean when they say "RFM." It seems shocking at first because more girls are dropped earlier but it does actually maximize placement. There are quite a few threads on it here if you want more info, but as Titchou says, talk to your NPC advisor.

However, just because the lists are placed into the computer doesn't mean the chapters don't make the lists in the first place.

gpb1874 · #7 09-09-2010, 02:00 PM

We've been using ICS for several years and I love it. We used to use an old computer program and it was horrible - it was DOS based. You do not have to use RFM if you use ICS (not familiar with innova), but if your campus uses ICS, it makes it much easier to do RFM. As others have mentioned, RFM actually works out better for all involved. The chapters that are really strong at recruitment invite back fewer people because they don't need as large a pool to chose from. Chances are that they will get all the girls they invite to pref, so they are forced to cut more girls earlier on instead of holding on to girls they will not need. Chapters that don't do as well in recruitment are able to invite back more girls since historically, they have a harder time recruiting girls. It just balances the odds a little better. And as already mentioned, it keeps super chapter A from keeping PNMs hopes up that they will get invited to pref when in reality, they need to look at more chapters. Hopefully that made some sort of sense. I know there are threads that explain it a lot better!

Your recruitment process sounds a little weird to an outsider. Why is there a week between the first event and second event? Can the recruitment events be back to back? I'm at a smaller campus and here's our schedule:

Wednesday - orientation (no rounds)
Thursday - Open house, 30 min rounds, everyone attends
Friday - Sorority event (usually ice breakers or games), 30 min rounds, most pnms attend, chapters usually only for grades
Saturday - Philanthropy, 45 min rounds, invite only, heavier cuts are made for this round.
Sunday - Pref, 50 min rounds, invite only, heaviest cuts are made for this day; bid day is that night.

Lastly, you can add girls back into a chapter's event (as long as the chapter wants her there). You just have to do it manually, but it's not that big of a deal.

33girl · #8 09-09-2010, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpb1874

Your recruitment process sounds a little weird to an outsider. Why is there a week between the first event and second event? Can the recruitment events be back to back?

CWRU is pretty academic focused and I'm guessing they would lose a lot of girls if events were on school nights.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panhelgirl321

At our school, we have recruitment for two weekends. The first weekend the girls meet all of the chapters. After that weekend, they rank their preferences and the chapters give us their first and second lists. Many of the chapters want the same girls, and a lot of times the girls that the chapters want are not interested in them at all. I guess our directors biggest concern is that since the chapters do not pick the girls that want to go back to their parties, the PNM's will be dropped and the chapter's will see less girls. Does that make sense? Depending on how the chapter does the previous year depends how many PNM's they are allowed to have back the second weekend.

Thanks for all of your help!

It sounds like the chapters and the girls both need to wake up and smell the coffee.

Do you have a problem with everyone wanting to go to sorority XYZ and no one wanting to go to sorority ABC? Or is it just an issue of rushees AND sororities not being able to convey to each other where they really want to be? Do all the women have to visit all the sororities at least once? I read your Greek life website, and frankly it was really wordy and confusing - I couldn't find an answer to that basic question. Also what is up with the part about no one being allowed to go over ceiling of 50? Do you not use the same quota for all groups?

There are always going to be perfect PNMs that everyone wants. Only one sorority will get them. If sororities persist in focusing on 10% of the rushee pool to the exclusion of the other 90%, I'm sorry, but the crappy numbers they get will be their own fault.

This isn't a computer vs hand matching issue, this is an attitude issue.

DubaiSis · #9 09-09-2010, 02:32 PM

The computer thing is after my time, but there's no way I'd recommend hand matching over computer software. It seems as an observer/fanatic of recruitment that it takes a couple years for RFM (and the software that you use to implement RFM) to really settle in and work the way it should, but everyone will be much more happy in the long run. I think especially if you don't have chapter parity (all the houses are more or less the same size) the software and RFM is going to be a huge help to your entire Greek system.

And I love that in a matter of moments the computer can run a scenario for quota of 30, then 31 then 32 to see which number places the most girls because it isn't necessarily 32, even though logic seems like it would be. It also eliminates any funny business. Not that there's any of that at your school, but when you take the human element out of it, I think it can't help but be more fair.

Take the leap! It's the 21st century!

AXOrushadvisor · #10 09-09-2010, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panhelgirl321

Hello!

I go to Case Western Reserve University and I am the VP Membership on the Panhellenic Council. We currently use a hand matching system and are looking into implementing ICS or Innova. It has caused a lot of debate with the sororities, and I am trying to get information from schools who use the system. Some of the biggest concerns are that girls are going to dropped more from the process and it will make the process more selective. A lot of our chapters don't match well after the first weekend and we go back and call them to see if they will accept girls back and many girls would not be in a chapter if we did not call. How does your school like your computer system?

Thanks!

I just reread your question.

Concern 1: that girls are going to dropped more from the process and it will make the process more selective.

Answer: It does actually the opposite. The system has the PNM fully participate so they would need to go back to a house that they may not be thrilled with. More selective? No, in fact it will have the PNM's look again at a house they didn't think they wanted because they were set on ABC, but ABC dropped them. It will give the PNM's more choices to Chapters where the Chapters want them. It wont give them a false hope that ABC wants them and they get dropped right before pref. It places more PNM's in the greek system.

Concern 2: A lot of our chapters don't match well after the first weekend and we go back and call them to see if they will accept girls back and many girls would not be in a chapter if we did not call.

Answer: I'm not sure I understand this, but RFM/Innova should eliminate the need to call the Chapters to see if they will take more PNM's because it will do it for you. Some one mentioned flex list and the RFM specialist will tell you how many to put on your flex list. So if Chapter ABC has to bring back 50 girls and has 25 on their flex list and their returns are high RFM goes in and releases more women from their invite list and allows those women to go to other houses.

There are several threads on here about RFM. My opinion of it is that it will help your weaker Chapters by increasing their pool of PNM's and hold your strong Chapter at ceiling so that they don't become a super tanker among small ships. It doesn't seem like RFM would work and when you look at the release figures you'll think holy cow that is a lot to release, but it works and works well. Again, I'm actually shocked that your still doing hand bid matching. I haven't seen that done in years.

FSUZeta · #11 09-09-2010, 06:01 PM

basically, after attending parties at all the sororities, the pnms meet with their recruitment guide(s) and rank the chapters-if there are 6 chapters, and for the next round pnms can attend a maximum of 4 parties, they would rank their favorite 4 chapters as #1's, and then their least favorite 2 as #2 and #3. if the pnm is invited back to her 4 favorites, then hooray! if she is only invited back to 3 of her #1's, then the computer will see try to find an invitation to her #2 choice, and if they did not invite her back, then with her #3 choice. the object is to have her attend as many parties as allowed. they might not like having to attend their #2 or #3 choices, but seeing them one more time might just change their mind. if they don't have a full schedule, that is okay too. they just attend however many they are invited to.

the same process happens for the next round, with the girls listing their top choices as #1's and the least favorites from the parties they attended as #2 and #3. and so on, and so forth.

Panhelgirl321 · #12 09-09-2010, 09:17 PM

Thanks everyone, I'm definitely going to be doing a lot of research on this.

No, we can't have recruitment on school nights because no one would go through recruitment if we did. They complain enough about having it on saturday and sunday for two weekends.

It's reassuring to hear that it doesn't eliminate that many PNM's. Yes, I agree that some of the chapter's at our school have trouble finding out what girls are right for their chapter. We have been trying to work with them and I think they are finally getting the message.

33girl · #13 09-09-2010, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panhelgirl321

It's reassuring to hear that it doesn't eliminate that many PNM's. Yes, I agree that some of the chapters at our school have trouble finding out what girls are right for their chapter. We have been trying to work with them and I think they are finally getting the message.

Is there an issue with chapter cohesiveness going into rush? I mean, I think every group likes to pride themselves on being diverse but they should all be able to come together when it's rush time.

And remember - if some PNMs are just not suited to ANY of the chapters - then they're not. Trying to wedge them in somewhere is not a viable option. My school also had total of 50, with 8 groups, and yes, there were some girls who did not fit into ANY of the sororities. Just because you don't have 200 member chapters does not mean you have to take everyone interested in a sorority. In fact, it's just the opposite. 4 or 5 bad apples/uncomfy members in a chapter of 200 will probably go largely unnoticed - 4 or 5 bad apples in a chapter of 50 can be DEATH to a chapter. It's your right to apply the standards that your chapter and your organization consider necessary when choosing members.

Panhelgirl321 · #14 09-10-2010, 08:37 PM

The sororities only get 50 minutes with the girls total the first weekend, so it's sometimes hard to feel out who would be a good fit for their chapter. They typically invite back the same girls who are very social and are good at conversations. Most people who go through recruitment would have never dreamed of going greek before coming to CWRU. During the second weekend the girls get much more time to talk to the sorority women and the chapters are able to distinguish who would be a good fit for their chapter. There definitely are women who sorority life isn't for them, but luckily many girls are placed in chapters and there is a very high retention rate. Luckily the system we have now works pretty well for us!

AOII Angel · #15 09-10-2010, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panhelgirl321

The sororities only get 50 minutes with the girls total the first weekend, so it's sometimes hard to feel out who would be a good fit for their chapter. They typically invite back the same girls who are very social and are good at conversations. Most people who go through recruitment would have never dreamed of going greek before coming to CWRU. During the second weekend the girls get much more time to talk to the sorority women and the chapters are able to distinguish who would be a good fit for their chapter. There definitely are women who sorority life isn't for them, but luckily many girls are placed in chapters and there is a very high retention rate. Luckily the system we have now works pretty well for us!

But your system isn't working. You're having to do extra work to cajole your chapters to accept women back for extra parties. Apparently they are cutting too many women early on in the process and having to reverse those decisions rather than have a pledge class of 2. RFM and computerized bid matching helps because the statistics tell the chapters how many women they should invite back at each round. Yes, they will still all invite back the same women, but they won't cut everyone on the bottom, especially if historically Group XYZ never has those top girls come back to their parties. They don't have to cut many at all, so when 30/50 of the girls they really want turn them down for the next party, they still have invitations going out to 20 other women who they may need to get to know better but they have as back ups because they need a few more women around to make quota. Does this make sense? Group ABC may typically have 45/50 of the girls they like come back to their parties, so they only get to ask 50 girls back instead of 70 girls like XYZ. It gets tailored for each group depending on their historical return trends.

No more having to call people and talk them into inviting back Suzy PNM. Case Western really isn't that unique...you've just made it harder for yourselves.