Cornell (NY): Kappa Sigma Closes Chapter

exlurker · #1 05-05-2010, 04:24 PM

Kevin (and LaneSig) -- for lists:

Kappa Sigma is closing its chapter at Cornell. The university will also cease recognizing the chapter. RM violations, alcohol violations are reported. Article is on the Cornell Daily Sun's site:

http://www.cornellsun.com/section/ne...-down-national

Ghostwriter · #2 05-05-2010, 05:26 PM

All I can say is "dumbasses". This from one Kappa Sig to the ones at Cornell. I believe that they will go underground like Duke and others did.

Hampton · #3 05-06-2010, 02:51 AM

They weren't "dumbasses". I knew of what went on blow by blow. If you know anything about Kappa Sigma at Cornell you know that they are considered the most studious, responsible and serious-minded fraternity on campus. Kappa Sigma loses more chapters and colonies than any other fraternity. It isn't always everyone else's fault, sometimes it is the fraternity's national leadership.

They are looking at options but I highly doubt that you will see Kappa Sigma again at Cornell (any sooner than you will see them at Harvard, Dartmouth or Brown), or if it does come to Cornell it will be as a new group that would have to purchase a house and it would receive little support from the alumni.

There are some options I understand, that are on the table but that is their business.

Now Kappa Sigma is down to Penn in the Ivies, and I know for a fact those guys are seriously considering leaving. Kappa Sigma seems to be going backwards instead of coming out what I'm reading is a turbulent recent history. Best of luck.

Ghostwriter · #4 05-06-2010, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hampton

They weren't "dumbasses".

Yes they were. They deliberately thumbed their nose at the rules and requirements given to them from National. They absolutely knew what they needed to do to get off probation and continue on in their good graces. Many chapters have successfully met these requirements and they are pretty much the same across the board. Cornell didn't want to meet them and didn't bother. And yes I believe they are "dumbasses" for doing so. They certainly do not represent the highest ideals of the Star and Crescent.

Off soapbox now.

Barbie's_Rush · #5 05-06-2010, 05:19 PM

While leaders in the chapter do not dispute these facts, they did express disappointment at how their national governing body found out about the incident.

Whiners. They were given more chances than a lot of chapters would have had yet they continued to do precisely what they wanted to do.

Hampton · #6 05-07-2010, 01:19 AM

Again, if you don't know what you are talking about you should not make insulting and definitive statements. I would not say that Barbie is a so-and-so because of her habit of taking a single phrase from a news story out of context and giving a single campus newspaper write absolute credence. I would not say that ghostwriter is a name calling so-and-so. I don't know you and anything I read has to be understood in that context. And just out of dignity I will not stoop to name calling even if they insult my family.

I just want to give a personal description from my conversations of what a few brothers at the Cornell chapter feel. I'm not going to follow up on this since publicizing the disagreement really doesn't do any good.

There was already a lot of dissatisfaction with Kappa Sig. Whether fair or not there was the perception that Kappa Sig isn’t interested in being at peer schools. The only remaining Ivy is Penn and there is serious talk underway there too about leaving. This isn't only an issue with the fraternity's lack of chapters at Ivies but also in the region and at schools of a certain academic stature. There was a feeling that the organized alumni network of the Cornell chapter was the only real benefit of affiliation, and that the national fraternity was lacking relative to other fraternities.

Guys in the chapter were pretty vocal about their view that the fraternity puts chapters on various forms of probation arbitrarily, and that it has an expensive process to return. (The probation came about because certain folks from the regional office allegedly saw perfectly respectable pictures with a couple of individuals holding red cups.) The feeling was that regional coordinators had very little usefulness except in penalizing the fraternity and that the attitude was negative, disrespectful and domineering. Brothers at that chapter told me that there is a push for numbers and money and that the national office kicks out chapters or kills colonies more than any fraternity. Realistically every national office has to be concerned with with growth, money and insurance costs but apparently some felt this was excessive.

As you probably know, Kappa Sig left the NIFC and not everyone was happy with that. Some in the fraternity felt that the standards and culture of NIFC fraternities was lost when the national fraternity left the organization and that related to the above issues. Again, let me stress that I have no judgments on the matter.

Every fraternity has internal discord and for Kappa Sig this is not one chapter as I understand it. Another recent incident involved the mother chapter at University of Virginia just last week. The Virginia chapter threatened to cut off access to a historical Kappa Sigma site on campus where the fraternity was founded. Many of the issues at Virginia I understand from word of mouth are the same as Cornell's.

The students at the Cornell chapter were weighing their options when this recent incident occurred.

The situation was as I understand it, was not irresponsible drinking but a medical situation. The students were forthright in saying that said student was drinking moderately. (The concern was that the student who has health issues might have had some trouble with an adverse reaction.) The national office had banned all drinking in a highly contentious exchange. Some of the brothers at Cornell felt that it had more to do with politics and some historical matters in the last decade within the fraternity.

For the Cornell chapter of Kappa Sig this incident also was contentious for another reason. The Dean at Cornell, a Mr. Apgar, of notoriety for his "zero tolerance" anti-hazing and anti-drinking speeches, was under the gun because Ivy League and national blogs (Gawker, Huffington Post, etc.) were running stories about two other fraternities (PKA and ADPhi) and the apparent double standards at Cornell towards parties and hazing.

Sources related to the national and on Ivy blogs that Cornell's PKA and ADPhi were perhaps hazing. Upon hearing this story, PKA (with an outlandishly egregious history of bad behavior) had a hearing and was kicked off campus despite strong support their alumni and national office support. The very wealthy and very well-connected brothers in ADPhi were put on an apparently lenient probation. A year earlier, another extremely wealthy and well-connected fraternity Psi Upsilon was put on probation by its own alumni housing corporation because of a string of publicized incidents but the university maintained recognition and the school allowed the fraternity to continue to operate even then for fear of upsetting any well connected individuals.

The anger towards Apgar is not just because of the hypocrisy here but because he apparently broke one of the schools important policies governing these issues. A well known policy exists at Cornell where students are urged to err on the side of caution take any sick student to the hospital and to report any suspected or possible drinking. This is done under the provision that the student(s) who was possibly drinking or those who accompanied the student or called emergency services will have enjoy strict confidentiality regarding any and all outside parties. Apgar took it upon himself to break the school's policy and to attribute the situation not to the individual possibly drinking but to all those who took the young men in to the hospital and by implication. The individuals pointed out that there was not even a hearing, and while they admit that the young man was likely drinking (as Apgar reported) they were not allowed as a group to explain their circumstances nor did Apgar even have the courtesy to tell them that he was going to break Cornell policy and report the incident to an outside organization. The outside organization in this instance was not the campus paper or IFC but the national fraternity. One can only assume that Apgar took this measure because he knew that in the scheme of things it would take away attention from him and that he could get away with it because Kappa Sigma neither had the weight as a chapter with the school or the support from the national fraternity. That was rather sad because what the Cornell Kappa Sigma chapter could say of itself was that it was one of the oldest and was known for being low-key and studious and virtually never had problems with the IFC or judiciary.

The men of the chapter did not even have a chance then to make a final decision and plans. And frankly, the whole thing had to be a bit humiliating as it underscored Kappa Sigma's position relative to other fraternities. That's just my take but I did find that he guys were really torn up about the whole thing and at least one guy said it really was the worst timing with exams coming up.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Kappa Sig at Cornell break off as a local or re-affiliate which is not an option for NIFC but Kappa Sig isn’t a NIFC fraternity. They are known as a smart, responsible and ambitious group of guys. It may be time to move on.

I am not saying that their views are valid and I will not get into an argument. They will figure something out. It just happens that I have relatives in the chapter and at another Kappa Sig, as well as several other fraternities. (Big family, lots of boys through the years, most of us in the military before college.) I've spend lots of time visiting and hearing their perspective. Regardless of anyone's perspective they will graduate from one of the best universities in the world and be successful and the chapter will figure out what's best for them. Far more than I meant to write.

dreamseeker · #7 05-07-2010, 01:35 AM

^^^ holy shit. you actually sat down and wrote ALL of that for some strangers on the internet??

man i've been out of school way too long cuz i can't imagine writing that much anymore. i'm sitting here wondering if you really wrote all of that or copied and pasted some from somewhere else. lol

Ghostwriter · #8 05-07-2010, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hampton

.

They are known as a smart, responsible and ambitious group of guys.

What part of no organized events with alcohol did the guys at Cornell not understand? Is it smart and/or responsible to have an event with alcohol while on probation? Being in an Ivy League School does not, in itself, make one smarter, more responsible or more ambitious than the rest of us slubs who are out here in the real world.

You need to take the "red cup with possible alcohol" with a grain of salt as most all chapters make that dubious claim. It has now become part mythology and folk lore. I am sure that the guys at Cornell would never stretch the truth about their roles in this.

The requirements for lifting probation usually involve raising a set monetary amount for philantrophy, 70%+ ritual proficiency for the chapter, risk management and pledge training clases and no events with alcohol for 1 year. This is not that hard to achieve if a chapter really wants to do so.

The fact that Kappa Sig National is not a part of IFC is not an issue. Kappa Sigs at virtually (I am not 100% sure) all universities are part of their universities IFC. They (the Chapters) abide by the local IFC rules and regulations.

Done.

jennyj87 · #9 05-07-2010, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hampton

Again, if you don't know what you are talking about you should not make insulting and definitive statements. I would not say that Barbie is a so-and-so because of her habit of taking a single phrase from a news story out of context and giving a single campus newspaper write absolute credence. I would not say that ghostwriter is a name calling so-and-so. I don't know you and anything I read has to be understood in that context. And just out of dignity I will not stoop to name calling even if they insult my family.

I just want to give a personal description from my conversations of what a few brothers at the Cornell chapter feel. I'm not going to follow up on this since publicizing the disagreement really doesn't do any good.

There was already a lot of dissatisfaction with Kappa Sig. Whether fair or not there was the perception that Kappa Sig isn’t interested in being at peer schools. The only remaining Ivy is Penn and there is serious talk underway there too about leaving. This isn't only an issue with the fraternity's lack of chapters at Ivies but also in the region and at schools of a certain academic stature. There was a feeling that the organized alumni network of the Cornell chapter was the only real benefit of affiliation, and that the national fraternity was lacking relative to other fraternities.

Guys in the chapter were pretty vocal about their view that the fraternity puts chapters on various forms of probation arbitrarily, and that it has an expensive process to return. (The probation came about because certain folks from the regional office allegedly saw perfectly respectable pictures with a couple of individuals holding red cups.) The feeling was that regional coordinators had very little usefulness except in penalizing the fraternity and that the attitude was negative, disrespectful and domineering. Brothers at that chapter told me that there is a push for numbers and money and that the national office kicks out chapters or kills colonies more than any fraternity. Realistically every national office has to be concerned with with growth, money and insurance costs but apparently some felt this was excessive.

As you probably know, Kappa Sig left the NIFC and not everyone was happy with that. Some in the fraternity felt that the standards and culture of NIFC fraternities was lost when the national fraternity left the organization and that related to the above issues. Again, let me stress that I have no judgments on the matter.

Every fraternity has internal discord and for Kappa Sig this is not one chapter as I understand it. Another recent incident involved the mother chapter at University of Virginia just last week. The Virginia chapter threatened to cut off access to a historical Kappa Sigma site on campus where the fraternity was founded. Many of the issues at Virginia I understand from word of mouth are the same as Cornell's.

The students at the Cornell chapter were weighing their options when this recent incident occurred.

The situation was as I understand it, was not irresponsible drinking but a medical situation. The students were forthright in saying that said student was drinking moderately. (The concern was that the student who has health issues might have had some trouble with an adverse reaction.) The national office had banned all drinking in a highly contentious exchange. Some of the brothers at Cornell felt that it had more to do with politics and some historical matters in the last decade within the fraternity.

For the Cornell chapter of Kappa Sig this incident also was contentious for another reason. The Dean at Cornell, a Mr. Apgar, of notoriety for his "zero tolerance" anti-hazing and anti-drinking speeches, was under the gun because Ivy League and national blogs (Gawker, Huffington Post, etc.) were running stories about two other fraternities (PKA and ADPhi) and the apparent double standards at Cornell towards parties and hazing.

Sources related to the national and on Ivy blogs that Cornell's PKA and ADPhi were perhaps hazing. Upon hearing this story, PKA (with an outlandishly egregious history of bad behavior) had a hearing and was kicked off campus despite strong support their alumni and national office support. The very wealthy and very well-connected brothers in ADPhi were put on an apparently lenient probation. A year earlier, another extremely wealthy and well-connected fraternity Psi Upsilon was put on probation by its own alumni housing corporation because of a string of publicized incidents but the university maintained recognition and the school allowed the fraternity to continue to operate even then for fear of upsetting any well connected individuals.

The anger towards Apgar is not just because of the hypocrisy here but because he apparently broke one of the schools important policies governing these issues. A well known policy exists at Cornell where students are urged to err on the side of caution take any sick student to the hospital and to report any suspected or possible drinking. This is done under the provision that the student(s) who was possibly drinking or those who accompanied the student or called emergency services will have enjoy strict confidentiality regarding any and all outside parties. Apgar took it upon himself to break the school's policy and to attribute the situation not to the individual possibly drinking but to all those who took the young men in to the hospital and by implication. The individuals pointed out that there was not even a hearing, and while they admit that the young man was likely drinking (as Apgar reported) they were not allowed as a group to explain their circumstances nor did Apgar even have the courtesy to tell them that he was going to break Cornell policy and report the incident to an outside organization. The outside organization in this instance was not the campus paper or IFC but the national fraternity. One can only assume that Apgar took this measure because he knew that in the scheme of things it would take away attention from him and that he could get away with it because Kappa Sigma neither had the weight as a chapter with the school or the support from the national fraternity. That was rather sad because what the Cornell Kappa Sigma chapter could say of itself was that it was one of the oldest and was known for being low-key and studious and virtually never had problems with the IFC or judiciary.

The men of the chapter did not even have a chance then to make a final decision and plans. And frankly, the whole thing had to be a bit humiliating as it underscored Kappa Sigma's position relative to other fraternities. That's just my take but I did find that he guys were really torn up about the whole thing and at least one guy said it really was the worst timing with exams coming up.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Kappa Sig at Cornell break off as a local or re-affiliate which is not an option for NIFC but Kappa Sig isn’t a NIFC fraternity. They are known as a smart, responsible and ambitious group of guys. It may be time to move on.

I am not saying that their views are valid and I will not get into an argument. They will figure something out. It just happens that I have relatives in the chapter and at another Kappa Sig, as well as several other fraternities. (Big family, lots of boys through the years, most of us in the military before college.) I've spend lots of time visiting and hearing their perspective. Regardless of anyone's perspective they will graduate from one of the best universities in the world and be successful and the chapter will figure out what's best for them. Far more than I meant to write.

OFP...you never know.

AOII Angel · #10 05-07-2010, 12:24 PM

So your Greek Advisor reported KS for having an event with alcohol while on probation (when they were instructed that they could have NO alcohol at KS functions) and it's Apgar's fault? Nice way to pass the blame on to others. Tell your friends they need to man up and accept their own mistakes. They chose to break the rules which included having a member drink to the point of needing medical attention, btw! Having their charter revoked is at their feet.

DrPhil · #11 05-07-2010, 02:04 PM

Idiots who need to go back to lurking for 100, Alex.

Hampton · #12 05-07-2010, 04:02 PM

The chapter has had the highest GPA at the school and the majors are mostly engineering, science and the top majors at Cornell- IR, Hotel, ILR. Don't worry, they are "idiots" who will out earn your Bubba State ass hands down.

And this site has way too many morons for me to "lurk" whatever the hell that is (no offense to you guys who don't around making judgments and assumptions and show they're cyber gangstas.)

And idiot, the kid who was sick was not sick from alcohol and it wasn't a Kappa Sigma "event". That's why the students wanted a hearing. Further Kappa Sigma isn't on the IFC in many schools and isn't recognized by a number of schools they are at. That was part of the NIFC beef. That's not to say it is wrong to take that approach, just pointing out you don't know jack. Your description of the process was wrong too, particularly missing a judiciary fee that was pretty steep.

The more I see the random douchebags they were dealing with (assuming you are a brother) the more I can see what they are up against. I'm sure you aren't reflective. Takes a couple of idiots to destroy a village.

Rather than reply to something that you have a problem with but have no knowledge of first hand, go confront that person who damaged you so badly that you reflexively worship authority, name call on the internet and can't think independently. Or slash your wrist. Either way I won't be at this site again but I still prefer you wrist slash.

AOII Angel · #13 05-07-2010, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hampton

The chapter has had the highest GPA at the school and the majors are mostly engineering, science and the top majors at Cornell- IR, Hotel, ILR. Don't worry, they are "idiots" who will out earn your Bubba State ass hands down.

And this site has way too many morons for me to "lurk" whatever the hell that is (no offense to you guys who don't around making judgments and assumptions and show they're cyber gangstas.)

And idiot, the kid who was sick was not sick from alcohol and it wasn't a Kappa Sigma "event". That's why the students wanted a hearing. Further Kappa Sigma isn't on the IFC in many schools and isn't recognized by a number of schools they are at. That was part of the NIFC beef. That's not to say it is wrong to take that approach, just pointing out you don't know jack. Your description of the process was wrong too, particularly missing a judiciary fee that was pretty steep.

The more I see the random douchebags they were dealing with (assuming you are a brother) the more I can see what they are up against. I'm sure you aren't reflective. Takes a couple of idiots to destroy a village.

Rather than reply to something that you have a problem with but have no knowledge of first hand, go confront that person who damaged you so badly that you reflexively worship authority, name call on the internet and can't think independently. Or slash your wrist. Either way I won't be at this site again but I still prefer you wrist slash.

And you have first hand knowledge?
Might I also add, that you are chatting with lawyers, scientists, physicians, etc. The internet isn't just populated with the uneducated (even though looking in the mirror might make you think so.)

DrPhil · #14 05-07-2010, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hampton

The chapter has had the highest GPA at the school and the majors are mostly engineering, science and the top majors at Cornell- IR, Hotel, ILR. Don't worry, they are "idiots" who will out earn your Bubba State ass hands down.

And this site has way too many morons for me to "lurk" whatever the hell that is (no offense to you guys who don't around making judgments and assumptions and show they're cyber gangstas.)

And idiot, the kid who was sick was not sick from alcohol and it wasn't a Kappa Sigma "event". That's why the students wanted a hearing. Further Kappa Sigma isn't on the IFC in many schools and isn't recognized by a number of schools they are at. That was part of the NIFC beef. That's not to say it is wrong to take that approach, just pointing out you don't know jack. Your description of the process was wrong too, particularly missing a judiciary fee that was pretty steep.

The more I see the random douchebags they were dealing with (assuming you are a brother) the more I can see what they are up against. I'm sure you aren't reflective. Takes a couple of idiots to destroy a village.

Rather than reply to something that you have a problem with but have no knowledge of first hand, go confront that person who damaged you so badly that you reflexively worship authority, name call on the internet and can't think independently. Or slash your wrist. Either way I won't be at this site again but I still prefer you wrist slash.

FLOUNCE!!!!!!

AOII Angel · #15 05-07-2010, 04:11 PM

What I really find funny in this thread is how angry and defensive Hampton is getting for someone not even in the chapter we're discussing...to the point he invites us to "wrist slash." LOL! What a freak! He probably is a KS from Cornell, but he sure doesn't make the case for the chapter very well.