Smoker's widow awarded millions

[DaemonSeid]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7898323.stm

A US jury has ordered tobacco giant Philip Morris to pay $8m (£5.6m) to the widow of a lifelong smoker who died of lung disease.

The jury in Florida decided in favour of Elaine Hess, whose husband Stuart died of lung cancer in 1997 at age 55. He had smoked for 40 years.

The ruling could blaze a legal trail for 8,000 similar cases in Florida.

Altria, the parent company of Philip Morris, called the case "profoundly flawed" and said it would appeal.

The court ordered Philip Morris to pay $3m in compensatory damages and $5m in punitive damages, although Mrs Hess had sought $130m (£91m).

Legal precedent

Alex Alvarez, an lawyers for Mrs Hess, said he felt vindicated by the award.

"She's a 110lb (50kg) elementary school teacher and she went up against Philip Morris, one of the most powerful companies in the world, and won," Mr Alvarez told Reuters news agency.

[PhiGam]

This is retarded. Shes gonna get destroyed during appeals, I hope she found an attorney to work pro-bono because otherwise she will be poor when this case is over. It is not Phillip-Morris' fault that her husband chose to smoke cigarettes for 40 years. I hate when people fail to take responsibility for their own actions- that sense of entitlement is the root of everything that is wrong in America today.

[Kevin]

The fact that what Phillip Morris did was wrong is not alleviated by the fact that they did it to a lot of people or that it could put them out of business. These cigarette manufacturers intentionally targeted kids and teenagers. They put harmful and addictive chemicals into their product. Why do you think responsibility should be a one-way street?

[DaemonSeid]

I have to side with PhiGam on this...

What did Phillip Morris do wrong?

That's like saying that it's wrong making alcoholic products and people die because someone uses their products.

Moreso with smoking, they tell you upfront on the product that it's bad for you.

You have to make that choice if you want to do it.

[DrPhil]

Nonsense.

Nicotine is addictive but not to the point where personal responsibility is removed.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Moreso with smoking, they tell you upfront on the product that it's bad for you.

Remember, the concrete evidence of smoking being really bad for you didn't really start coming out until the 80's. This man had smoked since he was 15 and was likely not aware of the health risks associated with smoking.

Once he started, he was probably addicted by those addictive, harmful chemicals put into cigarettes.

I think it's a different case if you have a smoker who started up in the late 80's/90's or beyond.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Why do you think responsibility should be a one-way street?

It shouldn't but what happens after people know about the intentional harmful substances and targeting?

Not to mention the fact that certain alcohol and tobacco products (that are potentially stronger than others) are disproportionately marketed in certain communities. If these companies are going to pay up, there needs to be a class action suit.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

I have to side with PhiGam on this...

What did Phillip Morris do wrong?

That's like saying that it's wrong making alcoholic products and people die because someone uses their products.

Moreso with smoking, they tell you upfront on the product that it's bad for you.

You have to make that choice if you want to do it.

Back in the day they didn't warn you. EVERYONE used to smoke back then.

And, as a smoker who has recently lost an uncle to lung cancer, I think this lawsuit is stupid. Yes it's hard to quit once you get addicted, but like DS said, are people gona start suing alcohol companies because their relative/friend died of alcohol poisoning or alcoholism contributed to their death?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

I have to side with PhiGam on this...

What did Phillip Morris do wrong?

That's like saying that it's wrong making alcoholic products and people die because someone uses their products.

Moreso with smoking, they tell you upfront on the product that it's bad for you.

Not quite, I don't think. First, they only put on the product that it's bad for you because they are required by law to do so.

Second, if the evidence here shows what I assume it did (I can only assume without reading the whole record), PM did more than make a tobacco product -- they added addictive chemicals to their cigarettes while denying that they were doing so. They set out to make their product more addictive than it already was, and they did so knowing the health implications of making cigarettes more addictive than they already are. And if the evidence here was similar to what I've seen in some other cases, they added the addictive chemicals while marketing their cigerattes as healthier or less addictive than other cigarettes.

I'm all for people taking personal responsibility for their actions. In my book, that applies to smokers and to cigarette companies alike.

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

Yes it's hard to quit once you get addicted, but like DS said, are people gona start suing alcohol companies because their relative/friend died of alcohol poisoning or alcoholism contributed to their death?

Nobody can sue unless they have standing to do so -- that's almost always just going to be a spouse, parent or child of the deceased.

And no, I don't think you'll see similar suits against alcohol companies unless someone comes up with evidence that the alcohol companies have taken positive action to make their products more addictive. Even then, any successful lawsuit would, I think, have to be limited to an outcome that was a reasonably foreseable consequence of the company's actions.

[PhiGam]

Originally Posted by Kevin

The fact that what Phillip Morris did was wrong is not alleviated by the fact that they did it to a lot of people or that it could put them out of business. These cigarette manufacturers intentionally targeted kids and teenagers. They put harmful and addictive chemicals into their product. Why do you think responsibility should be a one-way street?

Look at the list of chemicals they put in cigarettes is very long. Phillip Morris' cigarettes are actually SAFER than the additive free cigarettes because tobacco alone is very bad for you. The level of nicotine (THE addictive substance in cigarettes to my knowledge) and carbon monoxide is higher when you take out the 600 additives they put in. Most of the additives are meant to make the second hand smoke smell better.
The fact that cigarette advertisements are pretty much illegal now bothers me- not as a smoker but as a capitalist and an American. I'm not sure that their advertisements targeted children- whenever I see an uproar about their ads targeting kids its usually bullshit.

[PhiGam]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Nonsense.

Nicotine is addictive but not to the point where personal responsibility is removed.

Nicotine is naturally occuring in tobacco leaves- its the plants natural pesticide.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by PhiGam

whenever I see an uproar about their ads targeting kids its usually bullshit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZvHiiWFbBU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qfmWWZ9uSE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KgSp...eature=related

(that campaign is just the first thing that came to mind, it's by no means unique)

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by PhiGam

Nicotine is naturally occuring in tobacco leaves- its the plants natural pesticide.

But the companies don't stop there.

[PhiGam]

Originally Posted by Kevin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZvHiiWFbBU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qfmWWZ9uSE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KgSp...eature=related

(that campaign is just the first thing that came to mind, it's by no means unique)

The Flintstones was marketed towards adults back then- it aired in a primetime slot (8:30pm on a Friday) on ABC. Don't believe all of the propaganda painting cigarette companies as pure evil- they produce a product that people want and create a lot of jobs.

[PhiGam]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

But the companies don't stop there.

Follow me here:
Cigarettes are addictive
Nicotine is addictive
Nicotine is in all cigarettes
People quit smoking with nicotine patches, gum, and lozenges
Therefore, nicotine is the addictive ingredient in cigarettes