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  #1  
Old 01-17-2003, 02:43 AM
PM_Mama00 PM_Mama00 is offline
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UofM-Dearborn ALL anti-war?

My chapter wasn't very happy about this one.

One of the Arabic associations on the University of Michigan- Dearborn campus is trying to get students to sign a petition that will allow them to say that the whole campus is anti-war.

That means they will flat out advertise and promote the fact that "University of Michigan-Dearborn is Anti-War".

They had a student government meeting about this and the whole campus was invited to attend. I guess the argument got pretty heated, so it was "tabled". They are going to have an emergency student forum about it next week.

I don't understand how an organization can do this without the regents of UofM or whoever ok'ing this, or without total approval of the student body. Even if I were anti-war, I don't think I would want this association to go around promoting it. We were informed at our meeting by a fellow Greek who is a member of student government. If this petition wins, there could be protests and rallies, which could get extremely ugly. Another factor is that in the nation, Dearborn has the most populated Arabic city. Also, it could effect people getting a job, because let's say that someone applies for a governmental job, sees that this person went to UMD-- the anti-war school. I must add that this organization each month pretty much puts up about 40 blown up pictures of bloody children and adults-- victims of the war on Terrorism.

In terms of this petition, how would you feel about an organization gettin the OK to say that your WHOLE university is anti-war, and are any other campuses experiencing this?

I know that this is a touchy subject for some, but please keep the subject matter on the above question.
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  #2  
Old 01-17-2003, 05:12 AM
moe.ron moe.ron is offline
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i'll be proud for them sticking to a view that is unpopular.
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Old 01-17-2003, 07:09 AM
Imthechamp Imthechamp is offline
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Ship them back to the Middle East and let them sing their "Anti-War" shit there...
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Old 01-17-2003, 07:58 AM
moe.ron moe.ron is offline
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BTW, an anti-war guy became the president, so you might become the president of us later on.
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Old 01-17-2003, 10:02 AM
CarolinaCutie CarolinaCutie is offline
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Is that possible? It would be one thing if you went to a private school... but for ANYTHING to be "officially declared", you would think there would be LOTS of people to go through first.

I think the idea sucks because obviously every single person on your campus is not anti-war... but it will be interesting to see how many signatures they actually accumulate. I wouldn't worry too much about it though because I can't imagine a student government or a university system that would allow this to continue.
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Old 01-17-2003, 11:03 AM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Do they honestly think they'll be able to make a statement like that without a current student or alumnus coming out and refuting it to the media? If so, they are an extremely deluded bunch. They are entitled to say whatever they want, but if they try to say that they represent the whole campus officially, they will just end up looking like jerks.

The school really can't do anything, any more than they can do anything about the party school rankings (there's a jump for you). Now if one of the members of the org stole official stationary from the admin and released a statement on it - or if the org said that "President Whosit backs us" and he doesn't - then that's another story, and they could get in mucho trouble.
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Old 01-17-2003, 02:06 PM
Rudey Rudey is offline
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Crap

This is just one of many stupid acts that has occured in universities around the world.

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  #8  
Old 01-17-2003, 02:13 PM
texas*princess texas*princess is offline
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PM_Mama, I have to disagree with what this group is doing. It's hard to speak for EVERYONE for anything... (unless the decision is unanimous of course.. from EVERYONE in your school)

I'm all for free speech, so if they want to say The-Group-Name is anti-war, cool.. more power to them because they all feel that way, but you can't do that for an entire entity like a University with so many diverse views from the faculty, staff, students and alumnus.

There have been tables in our 'free speech area' on our campus with random groups with signs for anti-war, and that's cool. But if they wanted to speak for EVERYONE on campus, including me, I'd be against it.
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Old 01-17-2003, 02:45 PM
adduncan adduncan is offline
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I'm with Texas Princess and most of the other posts.

If a group wants to speak for THEMSELVES, then hey--knock yourself out. As a DAR who pushes for American history education, I say understand your rights/responsibilities and use them!

But the minute you try to rope in other people, not necessarily w/ their consent, you have a problem. What the group is doing is a pretty standard PR tactic: associate a "big name" w/ their efforts in order to increase both legitimacy and sympathy for their cause.

I agree w/ PM_Mama that if this blows up in the University's faces, it could affect job outlooks for graduates for years to come. Students don't often think of that (my age is showing, no disrespect to current collegians intended) when they plan activism. For example, when I say the name "Kent State", what's the first thing that comes to mind? $10 says it's that infamous photo of a student lying dead on the sidewalk with a woman screaming over him. 30 years later, no matter what else Kent State does for its students, faculty, the community, etc, that is what people remember. A Kent State graduate could find a cure for cancer today, issue a press release tomorrow, get it approved by the FDA next week, people will still remember that Vietnam protest image first and foremost.

There is enormous potential for that to happen again here. The consequences in the long-term could be even greater, given that sentiments are mostly split down ethnic lines.

If there is any way to make sure that ANY group does not formally associate its views with the University itself, it would be a good idea, IMHO.

Adrienne
(PNAM-2003)
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  #10  
Old 01-17-2003, 03:15 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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OT - Kent State

Quote:
Originally posted by adduncan
For example, when I say the name "Kent State", what's the first thing that comes to mind? $10 says it's that infamous photo of a student lying dead on the sidewalk with a woman screaming over him. 30 years later, no matter what else Kent State does for its students, faculty, the community, etc, that is what people remember. A Kent State graduate could find a cure for cancer today, issue a press release tomorrow, get it approved by the FDA next week, people will still remember that Vietnam protest image first and foremost.
I remember seeing a documentary on I think the 25th anniversary of the shootings, where students said that they were tired of hearing about May 3 and that it was the admin that kept talking about it....they wished that it would be downplayed, because they chose Kent for its academics and hated that the shooting was the first thing everyone thought of. So it's a double edged sword - that is the thing that makes people look at you, but it's also the thing that might make people look away.
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Old 01-17-2003, 10:34 PM
ZZ-kai- ZZ-kai- is offline
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Roger that....complain about war when you have a cruise missle up your ass.

I would imagine their views would be different if they were downtown NYC on 9/11/01.



Quote:
Originally posted by Imthechamp
Ship them back to the Middle East and let them sing their "Anti-War" shit there...
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  #12  
Old 01-18-2003, 04:01 AM
moe.ron moe.ron is offline
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what does 9/11 have to do with iraq? don't believe all the hype, this has nothing to do with 9/11. unless of course u belive everything the white house said, nevermind CIA has said there is no link between Iraq and Al Qaeda. if you read papers on the two, you'll know that both side (al-qaeda and Saddam Hussain)despise each other.

Hussain is a tyrant, but he is no worst then other tyrants we have supported, such as Suharto, noriega, Shah of Iran, Pinochete, etc.
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Old 01-18-2003, 10:29 AM
ZZ-kai- ZZ-kai- is offline
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If I recall, I didn't link Iraq to Al Qaeda. Just saying, that there are evils out there that need to be dealt with. 9/11 was the beginning of the end for people/governments who support terrorism in one way or another.

Also, the CIA and the Whitehouse probably only reveal 20% of what they truly know, to the public. I am sure they are sitting on a whole crap load of evidence, just waiting to unleash on them.

Why else would Bush be sending a few hundred thousand troops to that area? I am sure its not for a good game of Risk.

Pro-America here, anti-evil. Keep on rockin in a FREE world!
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  #14  
Old 01-18-2003, 02:04 PM
DeltAlum DeltAlum is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by ZZ-kai-
Why else would Bush be sending a few hundred thousand troops to that area? I am sure its not for a good game of Risk.
I would be a whole lot smarter keeping my thoughts on this to myself...but what the hell.

First, to the topic of the thread. It's stupid for any group to claim that any organization is 100% agreed on any topic. They will just make themselves look ridiculous.

Now, to digress in the direction of many other posters...the upcoming war.

My age, experiences and background leave me really conflicted at the moment. I lived through the Vietnam era and was just out of college and working as a television director (6 and 11 PM News) in Columbus, about 100 miles from Kent, when the shootings occurred. Those two things have left me and a large part of my generation really questioning a lot of things.

I'll try to organize my thoughts, which keep racing wildly in different directions.

First, if nothing else, Vietnam left with me a not very subtle feeling of mistrust of things I hear from our government. History (tapes, archives, letters, papers etc.) from the Presidents (both Democratic and Republican) prove that our leaders were less than candid with us. That's being kind. I'm not a big George W fan, but would like to believe him. I wish I could see the "smoking gun" that they keep looking for. And before you take off on my politics, I'm not registered in either party -- have voted in every election since "Vote 18" passed in 1968, and have probably voted for an equal number of each party's candidates. I lean more toward conservative than liberal, but don't consider myself either.

Second, if we go to war, I hope the professional military officers are allowed to prosecute it -- and it is not subject to political pressures and medeling the way it was in Vietnam. We would have won that war if it had been run by the Pentagon instead of the White House.

IF it's really necessary to fight, let the Air Force turn the Iraq into a parking lot and send in the Marines to paint the stripes. Yes, innocent people will be killed. That happens in war. That's tragic, but if we don't want any collateral damage, we shouldn't go to war. Period. That's reality.

Third, regarding the shooting at Kent State, I truly believe that the late Governor Jim Rhodes and General Sylvester DelCorso, former Ohio Adjutant General should have been indicted and tried for murder after the Kent State incident. The local and state grand jury investigations were a white wash.

Rhodes, a conservative Republican from the Apalachian counties of S.E. Ohio (he was a friend of part of my family) was out to prove a point to all unruly college students. Of course he didn't expect shots to be fired and people to be injured and/or killed, but he put loaded weapons in the hands of young National Guardsmen who had no training whatsoever in riot control and no combat experience.

Also, not many remember that Kent State followed closely on the heels of a national Teamster truckers strike. Many of these guardsmen had been riding "shotgun" on independent trucks -- some of which had taken fire. These kids were scared, and not particularly stable. Putting them in that situation was criminal.

The final irony is that none of the killed or injured were taking part in the "demonstration." They were walking to class or their cars or whereever. Bullets from badly aimed military wepons travel a long way. These dead kids weren't peacenik hippies -- one was an ROTC student. All were simply minding their own business on campus. Nobody in the crowd that was allegedly threatening the guardsmen was hit.

I appologize for the rant, but I find it difficult to support sending our professional and civilian soldiers into harms way without some proof of the claims of Wepons of Mass Destruction in the hands of an admittedly tyranical despot. Prove he has them and his motives, and take him out. But the fact we don't like him just isn't a good enough reason for me. I wish the hell that W's dad had finished the job the last time. Another political decision.

(I questioned again whether to post this -- but guess I will. Some of my opinions seem a little strident especially about Vietnam and Kent, but were formed after living through the turbulence of those times. So, here they are for whatever they're worth.)
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The above is the opinion of the poster which may or may not be based in known facts and does not necessarily reflect the views of Delta Tau Delta or Greek Chat -- but it might.

Last edited by DeltAlum; 01-18-2003 at 02:10 PM.
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  #15  
Old 01-18-2003, 03:51 PM
moe.ron moe.ron is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by ZZ-kai-
Roger that....complain about war when you have a cruise missle up your ass.

I would imagine their views would be different if they were downtown NYC on 9/11/01.
Well, u used the same analogy that Bush used, the 9/11. Which is the reason that we can never have an honest debate in the hill. Those who are opposed to Bush's rhetoric and if need be going alone attitude, with disregard to international law, are now painted as a softy and supporter of Al Qaeda.

Interestng note, there are Al Qaeda in Iraq, but not in Hussein controlled area, but in northern Iraq with the Kurds where the US and British airforce provide cover. Ironic isn't it?
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