Don't Judge a Book by its Cover

[DrPhil]

*Title selected to trick you all because GC is about books today*

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37831468..._and_nutrition

Weight gain from illness, medication spurs sudden shame.

This story is about people who become overweight because of illness or medication and not because they love Friendly's grilled cheese hamburger.

Could such extenuating circumstances also apply to people who eat and don't exercise because they are depressed, etc.? Is emotional overeating a sign of a larger problem that goes beyond that big bowl of ice cream? Is every "explanation" for weight gain an acceptable one or does some of this border on "excuse?"

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Is every "explanation" for weight gain an acceptable one or does some of this border on "excuse?"

Why should someone need an excuse? There are far too many people who expect others to answer to them for their lives. Someone's fat? None of your concern. Sleeping with twelve people? None of your concern. Worshiping their left sock as a deity? None of your concern. Taking psych. meds for worshiping their left sock? None of your concern.

I hate the idea that we can say "well it's WRONG to judge someone with a thyroid condition but Suzie over there's just a fatty."

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Why should someone need an excuse?

In response to your rhetorical, people make excuses to THEMSELVES as well as to others. Societies, families, norms and values exist because people don't mind their own business and don't feel as though everything that others do is none of their concern.

So, back to the topic at hand:

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I hate the idea that we can say "well it's WRONG to judge someone with a thyroid condition but Suzie over there's just a fatty."

Then don't say that. That certainly isn't the intention of this thread.

If you're responding to the article, I agree. The article makes a distinction between "fat by choice" and "fat by force."

[Drolefille]

Well you asked whether some explanations are acceptable. If we say that some are and some aren't then in some ways yes, we're condoning that level of judging.

Particularly considering society's tendency to make the easiest/worst assumption of others: "He's fat because he eats Snickers for breakfast. She cut me off in traffic because she's an asshole."

It shouldn't be "I'm ashamed because my weight came from medication and not eating too much like someone else." People shouldn't feel ashamed for their weight, period.

[PiKA2001]

I know some people who's waist line expanded due to taking certain anti-depressants, and switching meds due to that fact.

I also think that a big factor in weight gain as a society is the introduction of overly processed "food" that we eat nowadays. It's not natural or real food and our body's can't process it correctly.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

I know some people who's waist line expanded due to taking certain anti-depressants, and switching meds due to that fact.

I also think that a big factor in weight gain as a society is the introduction of overly processed "food" that we eat nowadays. It's not natural or real food and our body's can't process it correctly.

Almost every psychotropic med has a side effect of weight gain. The only ones that don't tend to have nausea as an effect instead. My clients had a lot of problems with the combination of their meds + really crappy eating. They'd go buy a two liter for 50 cents from walgreens and drink that all day, every day.

For people without much in the way of cooking skills (and we provided skills training and meals for residential) cheapest food = crappiest.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

People shouldn't feel ashamed for their weight, period.

Yes, very good. They should be cognizant of their weight (underweight and overweight) and work toward healthy change. Being cognizant of their weight and working toward change can be conditioned by the reasons behind their weight issue.

There is an obesity problem in the Black community and it is complicated by people saying things like "I got sugar," "diabetes just runs in my family," and "I'm just big bonededed." That has sparked research and outreach programs to get people to understand the difference between medical/health meanings and cultural meanings.

Soooooo....

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Yes, very good. They should be cognizant of their weight (underweight and overweight) and work toward healthy change. Being cognizant of their weight and working toward change can be conditioned by the reasons behind their weight issue.

There is an obesity problem in the Black community and it is complicated by people saying things like "I got sugar," "diabetes just runs in my family," and "I'm just big bonededed." That has sparked research and outreach programs to get people to understand the difference between medical/health meanings and cultural meanings.

Soooooo....

*shrug* Look, you framed it as a discussion of explanations and excuses. I think there are a bunch of explanations and those are things that can be addressed through education, medication change, etc. But I don't think there need to be any excuses. On a societal level you do the research and education but on the individual, it's not my business.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

*shrug* Look, you framed it as a discussion of explanations and excuses. I think there are a bunch of explanations and those are things that can be addressed through education, medication change, etc. But I don't think there need to be any excuses. On a societal level you do the research and education but on the individual, it's not my business.

And the post you just quoted gave an example of perceived "explanations" and "excuses."

Thanks for answering. Education and outreach are important.

I don't know why you're stuck on whose business it is (LOL). As I said before, people make excuses to themselves and this often occurs before they feel the need to make excuses to others. Either way, the individual-level aggregates to society-level so it all eventually becomes society's business if it culminates to social problems that are correlated with other social problems.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

I know some people who's waist line expanded due to taking certain anti-depressants, and switching meds due to that fact.

I also think that a big factor in weight gain as a society is the introduction of overly processed "food" that we eat nowadays. It's not natural or real food and our body's can't process it correctly.

I hear ya. I certainly hope this sparks greater awareness of the crap people eat rather than "suing society." Well, there have already been lawsuits to teach some of these food companies a lesson. Should all of these companies put health disclaimers on their foods? We already know that companies sometimes lie on their nutritional labels.

As for medications and illnesses, the KNOWN repurcussions and side effects tend not to be kept a secret. There are lesser known side effects and you also never know 1) how something will definitely impact your body and 2) if you (in general) will be the .0556% of people who experience a side effect. Of course, that doesn't refer to the illnesses and medications that ALWAYS affect people in a particular manner.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

And the post you just quoted gave an example of perceived "explanations" and "excuses."

Thanks for answering. Education and outreach are important.

I don't know why you're stuck on whose business it is (LOL). The individual-level aggregates to society-level so it all eventually becomes society's business if it culminates to social problems that are correlated with other social problems.

Because the article, and your original post, weren't dealing with societal level outreach and education. It was talking about determining whether a reason for weight gain is acceptable or not and talking about body shame. It's neither society nor an individual's position to shame someone for his/her body and the idea that there are unacceptable reasons for being overweight feeds that. Even if Joe Scmoe says he's "just big boned." I'm going to guess odds are he's aware of other reasons for his weight and feels compelled to make a socially acceptable "excuse." That's the effects of body shaming.

I'm sorry I'm not taking the conversation in the direction you wanted it to go, but I am only responding to what you put out there.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

...the idea that there are unacceptable reasons for being overweight feeds that.

That depends on the tone and the context of the message. The article did seem to want to distinguish between the "good obese people" and the "bad obese people." But, that's based on my perception which may be different than the intent of the article.

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I'm going to guess odds are he's aware of other reasons for his weight....

Maybe and maybe not. Such uncertainty and subpar information and resources are why there is research and outreach on obesity and the Black community.

Originally Posted by Drolefille

...I am only responding to what you put out there.

And I am only responding based on what I want to type about. Cheers. If this thread was just for the two of us, I would've private messaged it to you.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I don't know why you're stuck on whose business it is (LOL).

because in this day and age where looks 'are everything' society has made it a habit of glorifying and vilifying weight gain and loss all in the same breath.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

That depends on the tone and the context of the message. The article did seem to want to distinguish between the "good obese people" and the "bad obese people." But, that's based on my perception which may be different than the intent of the article.

I think it's pretty obvious, personally. There's a heavy focus on fault and shame and that's pretty standard.

Maybe and maybe not. Such uncertainty and subpar information and resources are why there is research and outreach on obesity and the Black community.

It's possible but it's a fairly consistent pattern in any community to put off "blame" because it's considered shameful. I'm not familiar enough with the issues specific to the black community to comment.

And I am only responding based on what I want to type about. Cheers. If this thread was just for the two of us, I would've private messaged it to you.

Actually, I'm aware of this. And I believe that your selective response to discussions like this, as well as throwing out "LOL" and "Yes, very good." in an otherwise polite discussion comes off as condescending and counterproductive.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

because in this day and age where looks 'are everything' society has made it a habit of glorifying and vilifying weight gain and loss all in the same breath.

Yes. Therefore........

And this topic doesn't have to be about looks. I see it as also about health. For instance, the research and outreach in the Black community is certainly not centered around looks. It is centered around health concerns and getting people to understand why their health may be at risk even if women say you look more handsome with some weight on you or your man says he loves your hugemongous ass.