Does your HQ *really* want to know about hazing?

Kevin · #1 06-01-2006, 12:10 PM

Do you feel as if your organization's leadership is genuinely concerned with stopping hazing? Or do you think that it's mostly for show for insurance companies, parents, and schools?

It seems to me that if our respective HQ's really wanted to stop hazing in its tracks, that they probably could succeed. However, in all likelihood, they would take a significant hit in terms of membership, and in terms of finances (at least short term).

How many of your national officers do you know who personally participated in hazing practices as undergrads?

(edited because I made no sense)

blkwebman1919 · #2 06-01-2006, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ktsnake
Do you feel as if your organization's leadership is genuinely concerned with stopping hazing? Or do you think that it's mostly for show for insurance companies, parents, and schools?

It seems to me that if our respective HQ's really wanted to stop hazing in its tracks, that they probably could succeed. Would they all take a significant hit in terms of membership, and in terms of finances (at least short term).

How many of your national officers do you know who personally participated in hazing practices as undergrads?

Something tells me you won't get many answers to your questions...

Tom Earp · #3 06-01-2006, 03:58 PM

If and When LXA finds out, they will counsel them and if not they will be suspended.

I might say rightly so!

Yes ktsnake, LXA does beleive in it and You are correct. I think more should dont You!

AGDee · #4 06-01-2006, 10:22 PM

I definitely think that we want to make sure hazing isn't happening in Alpha Gamma Delta. A lot of time and effort is spent on educational programming and working with individual chapters to change their attitudes and/or practices if we see a red flag. We are very focused on looking for the little signs that things might nto be quite right and try to act on it very quickly, before it becomes out of control. In my experience, it starts out small, breaking the little rules and then gets worse and worse. We are constantly ("we" being the Volunteer Services Team.. the regional/national volunteers) discussing how to spot it early and get it corrected before something awful occurs.

Our current leadership, whether hazed or not, does not believe in hazing as a positive means to attaining sisterhood and feel very strongly that our goal with new members is to integrate them into our chapter as a whole, not separate them by treating them with less respect and humanity than we treat any other sister.

I can only speak for myself when I say that I was not hazed and actively prevented hazing from occurring within my chapter as a collegian. One of the main reasons that I selected Alpha Gamma Delta was because it was well known that the chapter didn't haze. I fought to keep it that way. I witnessed a lot of hazing in other GLOs during my time as a collegian and none of it looked fun or inspiring. We, as Alpha Gams, are charged to Inspire the Woman and thereby, Impact the World and hazing has no place in that mission.

DeltAlum · #5 06-01-2006, 11:06 PM

At a Karnea (DTD International conference) a few years ago, there were banners from all of the chapters that had been active in the two years since the last conference.

At the opening session, the Fraternity president asked the members of the undergraduate council to remove the banners of the chapters that had lost their charters since the last meeting two years before.

Eleven banners were removed.

Do we catch everything. No. Do some of our chapters haze? I unfortunately have to assume so. Are circumstances sometimes taken into consideration. Yes. Do we have zero tolerance? Probably not, but pretty close.

I think we're serious about it.

bows&toes · #6 06-02-2006, 11:18 PM

They definatly look the other way if it's a big prominent chapter at a school with a great greek system such as Alabama, Ole Miss, Texas, etc. This has been proven time and time again. You think DKE will ever pull the Yale chapter for hazing? Don't hold your breath.

If you're some podunk chapter in NJ, they wont think twice of revoking you.

jon1856 · #7 06-23-2006, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bows&toes

They definatly look the other way if it's a big prominent chapter at a school with a great greek system such as Alabama, Ole Miss, Texas, etc. This has been proven time and time again. You think DKE will ever pull the Yale chapter for hazing? Don't hold your breath.

If you're some podunk chapter in NJ, they wont think twice of revoking you.

While I would need to dig through some records for details, I do know that SAE has put the hurt onto "big"/"prominent" chapters when they have crossed the line. I know MIT was shut down several year ago.

And it most likly happens every where, you and I just do not know about it.

A very down and dirty search found the history of GLO at San Diego State University:
http://www.sa.sdsu.edu/cfsl/document...eekHistory.DOC

And another down and dirty search using Chapter hazing closing came up with a long list to review, including this one about a 91 year old Phi Delt chapter house:
http://www.dailyutahchronicle.com/me...hchronicle.com

Or a 107 year old Fiji chapter:
http://columbiamissourian.com/news/story.php?ID=19494

And to cover both sides, The University of Michigan chapter of the Alpha Epsilon Phi
http://www.bgnews.com/media/storage/...www.bgnews.com

Please feel free to do you own search , but please do it before you make a statement that closings do not ever happen to big, proud chapters...........

Tom Earp · #8 06-24-2006, 04:49 PM

Harsh, but maybe very true.

Only The Members can change things and if they dont, then, whoses fault is that?

We all have General Assemblys that are attended by Members.

HQs set the tone, but if there are enough people who are not happy, it can be changed.

Dont just complain, do something about the problem.

shinerbock · #9 06-24-2006, 07:22 PM

Alright, sorry I haven't been keeping up, I'll try and respond but if I miss something remind me and i'll get to it. Regarding change, sure obviously the members have a certain amount of power, and I have been to both national conventions, as well as led focus groups at regional convention regarding recruitment practices and new member education. Maybe I mispoke regarding an overhaul, because I'm not sure that the national organization really could help us other than to have a sort of "hands off" policy, which they basically do. My chapter does well in recruitment, is good on campus, but I think the frustration that my brothers have involve the lack of emphasis nationals puts on realistic improvement. Having turned our chapter around about 15 years ago, I think the guys wish that our fraternity was better nationwide, instead of just in a handful of locations. However, like many national organizations, ours focuses mostly on more of what I would consider to be PC practices. They don't speak much about increasing your campus reputation or getting the best guys in rush, but rather about how to foster diversity and avoid what they consider hazing. I realize to many those things are important, but in our view, they don't really make a fraternity better. It often seems as if they care about numbers and diversity far more than they care about what the end result will be....moving on...In addition to the "PC" things I was talking about, one that really bothered people around my chapter was when nationals changed a part of our literature from "Christian" to "religious." The lines they changed were not just in membership literature, but in several statements which shape the entire foundation of our fraternity. Granted, we continue to use Christian, but the reason for the change indicated to us the direction nationals was moving towards. Regarding telling you my fraternity, I'd rather not, simply because of some of the things I've said that may have ruffled some feathers. I also don't really see that it is important. Also, somebody mentioned whether I would call somebody not from my chapter a brother...To be honest, I'm not sure. I really don't use the term that often to begin with, but I realize thats not really what you're asking. I imagine what you'd rather know is whether I consider myself and my chapter a part of a larger whole, or a seperate entity, and I think its probably some of both. Unfortunately we view the larger whole to be moving away from our ideals, so in that respect we might not wish to be associated. However, regarding the core ideals and the way we feel they are to be practiced, we proudly associate with those. I probably forgot somebody's comment, but i'll get back to it.

jon1856 · #10 06-24-2006, 11:08 PM

Nice posting but you either gloss over some issues of interested or missed them.

As this posting started on the topic of Risk Management and Hazing et al., you may wish to review the postings on that issue, the links which I provided are just the start.....but they do seem to show that several comments made here were inaccuate...

Your comments about your feelings ( and you seem to be also speaking for rest of your local chapter as well ) while well laid out seem to at times run against each other.

Long story short, drop your National indentification and go local. Your chapter seems to have major issues with you National which are not going to change.

This comment of yours alone:"Also, somebody mentioned whether I would call somebody not from my chapter a brother...To be honest, I'm not sure. I really don't use the term that often to begin with, but I realize thats not really what you're asking. I imagine what you'd rather know is whether I consider myself and my chapter a part of a larger whole, or a seperate entity, and I think its probably some of both. Unfortunately we view the larger whole to be moving away from our ideals, so in that respect we might not wish to be associated. However, regarding the core ideals and the way we feel they are to be practiced, we proudly associate with those." I find 'odd'.
Partly because of your prior postings, in several threads, on Hazing and Drugs, and partly because of what I experienced, learned and believe in the GLO system, and partly because some of your statements run up against each other.

Another thougth/question. You seem to be speaking for yourself and the rest of your 'friends' (as you do not seem able to use Brother). Are you also speaking for the younger members? Are you speaking for your Pledges who most likly do not know or understand what else is going on between you and your National? And if your Pledges ( and for that matter Rushees) are not aware of situation, how can they make any kind of imformed decision on weither or not to join your National Fraternity and chapter of it.

But this is a big world and we all, at least in this culture, have the right to our own experienes, beliefs, thoughts and actions ( as long as they to not cause any harm to others)

tunatartare · #11 06-02-2006, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bows&toes
You think DKE will ever pull the Yale chapter for hazing? Don't hold your breath.

hate to say it, but he does have a point

Tom Earp · #12 06-02-2006, 11:30 PM

Does He have a Point?

Maybe so, but Gamma Chapter our Second (Many Think First) is closed. ( Long Story).

If they screw up then they should be closed!

So You think that the big Chapters wont be closed, then think again!

If a Big Chapter is Closed for Violatins as they should be, if there is an explanation then Alums will go along with it.

If they act like punks, then treat them like punks.

They do Us no damn good or the Greek Society of that School!

Munchkin03 · #13 06-03-2006, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KLPDaisy
hate to say it, but he does have a point

Truth. It's very very difficult for an Ivy chapter to lose their charter. They have to do something terrible.

KSUViolet06 · #14 06-03-2006, 12:59 AM

Yes. One of our strongest chapters was closed 2 years ago for hazing. Our HQ feels very strongly about preventing it.

33girl · #15 06-05-2006, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ktsnake
Do you feel as if your organization's leadership is genuinely concerned with stopping hazing? Or do you think that it's mostly for show for insurance companies, parents, and schools?

It seems to me that if our respective HQ's really wanted to stop hazing in its tracks, that they probably could succeed. However, in all likelihood, they would take a significant hit in terms of membership, and in terms of finances (at least short term).

How many of your national officers do you know who personally participated in hazing practices as undergrads?

(edited because I made no sense)

Do you mean real, dangerous hazing (beating, forced drinking, physical overexertion, severe mental anguish) or "politically correct" hazing (interviews, signatures, silly stunts, wearing goofy things and having fun doing it)?

If it's the latter, I know for sure at least one of our past national presidents did as she wore her pledge beanie around at a past convention.

And as much as bows and toes can annoy me, he has a point. And if a big chapter like that DOES close, there's usually some major politics going on (i.e. a power struggle btwn that chapter and the HQ/council) that no one outside of those two parties has a clue about.