IFC/Greek Council etc problems

[mart1240]

Has anyone else had problems with their IFC?

I get so pissed when I think about our IFC. It's basically completley run by 2 mediocre and extremely nerdy houses on campus (out of 22). They have made a bunch of rules that they don't follow themselves, yet were mysteriously enforced on the four strongest houses on our campus. The J-board (which determines punishment etc) is hand picked by the exec board of our IFC, so basically 3 dipshits run our greek system and they are using it to their advantage at the expense of the rest of the greeks.

I have been going to meetings for the last couple months to try and be more involved, but it is impossible! I can't even get them to give me a copy of our IFC's Bylaws. Last meeting i started asking questions, and the president laughed in my face. Well of course i will look like a retard if I can't even get the rules.

I am getting very frustrated and feel like the least of my worries should be about IFC fucking over our chapter.

FYI-our house doesn't haze (like pledges don't even have to clean up stuff). we don't wet rush and i feel like we break a lot of the fratty stereotypes (i am probably biased though).

This really turned into a bitch session, but for real guys, IFC should be there to help not be the frat police. I have pretty much determined I will have to waste 3 years of my life with a bunch of douche bags to make any difference in the greek system. They argued about parlimentary procedure for like an hour once for crying outloud!

[LightBulb]

(Not having reps from each chapter in the council seems so foreign to me!)

Just curious - though you are not on the board, can you propose motions to amend bylaws (assuming you could find the bylaws)?

You really need to talk to the Greek advisor and get a copy of these bylaws; being expected to abide by bylaws you don't even know is ridiculous. If he / she will not listen to you, go in a group. Get your brothers behind you on this.

[33girl]

How are the officers elected? Do you have to be on NIC a certain number of terms? There's no reason that exec board should only be composed of 2 fraternities. Some of the other fraternities need to pick someone to stay on NIC a long time and get elected.

I'm also not sure about this business of the exec board picking the jud board - at any rate, they shouldn't be allowed to just pick their brothers and no one else (which I assume is what is happening).

You really need to go to your Greek advisor (or if he won't help, to whoever is over his head) IMMEDIATELY. There's no reason for things like withholding the bylaws from you - every fraternity should have a copy of them and they should be easily accessible at the Greek life office.

[mart1240]

yes, there is a rep for each chapter (thats why i can go to meetings and can atleast vote on some stuff apparently).

Here's an example:

a couple weeks ag, another house's IFC rep questioned an agreement or rule or something about having the first two weeks be dry on our campus to our greek advisor. No one on our IFC voted on the thing (it would probably get voted down). It's not in our bylaws apparently. The IFC execs just kind of made it a rule where the reprecussions of having any alcohol in common areas hte first two weeks an offense that will get you taken to j-board. He claimed there were NIC rules forcing us to do this (turns out there aren't) and forced us to table voting on the "rule/agreement" until a few days before school starts (not nearly enough time to organize a party that will follow our IFC's event rules). The email was about ten pages long and i spent probably an hour trying to decipher it, but it culminated in the advisor accusing the representative of wet rushing and then he forwareded the whole thing to their national chapter and every other IFC rep. I'm sure that makes a lot of sense....but it's fucked up, trust me. If our national chapter got an email like that, we would be in some deep trouble.

Anyways, the rule will be impossible to enforce on our campus, since the 8 biggest fraternities are in a row and it's pretty much the only place to party on campus the first two weeks. kids will undoubtedly be drinking in our common areas unless we we spend like 500$ on security guards and fencing (great first impression-get the fuck away from our house!). Also, it really divides our bros into ones drinking in common areas saying "fuck you fuck IFC" and the other kids saying "we have to follow the rules". ugh it's such a nightmare-i will feel especially bad because i know if the rule gets shot down the week before school starts, there will be houses that throw totally unorganized parties and the chances of some stupid freshmen getting hurt or raped will be much higher. Either way, it's a lose lose situations for anyone in the greek system except the guys running it.

[mart1240]

after reading my post, i feel it may come across very 1 sided. Anyways, i don't know how any of the rules work in our IFC-the 1 guy who was involved with IFC in our house graduated and is burned out of the greek system. being dry the first 2 weeks sounds like a good idea to avoid bad PR and wet rush on paper to many people i am sure.


If our house gets in trouble with our IFC, it is is in a LOT of trouble with our nationals, so i'm definitley biased because the IFC kids pretty much hold our charter in their hands and i feel like i can't do anything about it.

[gpb1874]

ok, this is coming from an IFC advisor (and a woman).

get a hold of the constitution and by-laws. make sure you read it to see how rules are to be passed - who has to vote on them, how many votes are needed to pass. also look to see how to remove an officer from his position. see if you can start procedures to remove the sucky officers from their positions. also look to see who can call meetings and what that procedure is. for my IFC, the exec board is mainly responsible, but delegates can call meetings if they can get support from other delegates. i don't have the rules in front of me, but i think that is it.

as others have said, talk to the IFC advisor and go in there with a good attitude. if you go in there and are pissed off, he/she will not be too open to your comments. if you go in there and say "hi advisor, i would like to talk to you about IFC. i have some concerns and would like to get your feedback on them. one is that the pres does blah blah blah. another is that blah blah. can you help me understand the situation?" this may be hard to do, but it will be to your advantage.

next, keep your org's regional or national rep informed of the situation (depends on how you're group works as to who you will contact....ask your pres if you're not sure). he may have some ideas or may be willing to talk to the IFC advisor if the advisor blows you off.

lastly, make sure you have done your research. know what NIC says on rules. contac them if you are not sure- they will be more than wiliing to help! if you can point out to the advisor and IFC pres that what the council is doing does not go with NIC guidelines, then you are better off.

good luck and keep us updated!

[Firehouse]

OK. I've seen this before and I'll tell you how to solve your problem and have fun with it too.
But first, let me offer you some advice that will help you in real life (undergraduate fraternity-sorority is not real life). 1) Listen to women like 33girl and gpb1874 who counsel cooperation and diplomacy; that approach will be valuable to you when you deal with adults. And, 2) make a point of expressing your strong feelings without the coarse language. In the real world, when you use the language you've been using here, no one above the age of 19 will take seriously anything you have to say. You have passion and I admire that. Hang onto that, always.

Now, here's how to have fun with this. Sororities and fraternities are very different. Undergraduate men typically don't have the patience or interest to pour over volumes of by-laws and long email essays. Men like a minimum of rules. That's how weasels control your IFC. They befuddle everyone else with "process" and mountains of rules and paperwork. My guess is that your Greek Advisor has discovered an easy path for him: he can control the system by placing his own weasley, hand-picked "home room monitors" in charge and then let them enforce his will using the indecipherable maze of regulations and rules of order you describe.
Realistically, no one on your side is going to plow through all that stuff. You don't have to! Remember: never play by the other guy's rules. The weasels love "the process" and the paperwork and the rules, and they want you to fight them on a field of their own choosing.
Refuse to do it.
If you want to have fun, and see some scrambling and screaming by the other side, then do this:
1. Have a meeting of just the Big Eight (as you describe them) chapters and organize them around the issue of small chapter weasels controling the IFC.
2. Elect officers, and very important: choose an articulate, respected spokesman to state your case to the administration and anyone else who inquires.
3. Announce that the Big Eight is leaving IFC and has formed a new trade association/representative body. This new organization will represent these fraternities to the Administration (you might include wording here praising the university for their openness in recognizing diverse interests - i.e. black fraternities and sororities in one council, multi-culturals in another, PanHellenic in a third and so on.) What you're doing, you say, is simply following that model. Since the IFC no longer represents your interests, you have formed an organization that does represetn your large fraternity culture. And, one of the signal features of your new organization is "One Man, One Vote". If Alpha Beta fraternity has 75 members, then their representative has 75 votes on any issue.
4. Never, under any circumstances, make any reference to the wet-dry issue, because this is what your opponents will use to discredit you. Just say, "We want to obey all the relevant laws and university rules on any alcohol-related issue...however, OUR issue is that the IFC does not represent our interests, it cannot be reformed to represetn us and we will no longer participate."
5. Focus you objection on the dictatorial atmosphere of the IFC, and on the fact that the small houses have seized control, "apparently under the banner of the Greek Advisor".
6. Formally ask the university to assist with the separation process by providing a neutral advisor for all parties, like a vice president.
7. The new organization speaks only through their officers. The FIRST THING our opponents will try to do is peel off the members of your group: divide and conquer. Speak through one voice.

What you will do effectively is to take control of the game and play it on your own terms. Trust me, if this IFC Advisor is the type I think he is, the university is completely unaware of any of the issues or of any of your complaints. If there's anything administrations hate worse than public trouble, it's surprises. This will hit like a shock wave, and all the eyes will turn to the IFC Advisor who will be treated as someone who "has let matters get out of hand." He will immediately be on the defensive.

When they come to you and ask why didn't you voice these concerns earlier, your man says, "We did, and no one listened."
When they ask you why you don't stay in IFC and "work to reform the system from within." you say, "The system is unfair, and reform will take longer than we have to spend - we're only here a few years - so we've created an organization that is fair and represents our interests."

I saw something like this happen at the University of Georgia a long time ago. Small house weasels got control of the IFC and changed the rush rules to the disadvantage of the major fraternities. Remember: don't let the other guy set the rules. The major fraternities simply got together and announced that there would be two rushes that fall at Georgia, the IFC Rush for anyone who desired to join one of those fraternities, and the "President's Preferred Rush" for anyone who wanted to join one of the big dogs. I think the administration got involved and order was restored back to Nature.

Have fun.

[33girl]

Originally posted by Firehouse
3. Announce that the Big Eight is leaving IFC and has formed a new trade association/representative body. This new organization will represent these fraternities to the Administration (you might include wording here praising the university for their openness in recognizing diverse interests - i.e. black fraternities and sororities in one council, multi-culturals in another, PanHellenic in a third and so on.) What you're doing, you say, is simply following that model. Since the IFC no longer represents your interests, you have formed an organization that does represetn your large fraternity culture. And, one of the signal features of your new organization is "One Man, One Vote". If Alpha Beta fraternity has 75 members, then their representative has 75 votes on any issue.

Wow, this is an EXCELLENT idea.

BTW Firehouse, clean your pm box.

[Firehouse]

Done

[PsychTau]

Alright...I'm over in another thread advising Amanda at SPSU (not a bad thing!!!), so I'm glad Firehouse got this one under control. (really, I'm saying that in jest...this is what I like about GC...people coming together to help others out)

Couple of comments from me though....

Originally posted by mart1240
If our house gets in trouble with our IFC, it is is in a LOT of trouble with our nationals, so i'm definitley biased because the IFC kids pretty much hold our charter in their hands and i feel like i can't do anything about it.

That is an interesting statement to make. What happened with your chapter in the past to get to the point where your LOCAL IFC holds your charter "in their hands". That makes it sound like "3 Strikes, your out" and you guys have 2 strikes.

The 10 page email you referred to earlier...that sounds like it turned into a big old miscommunication. If an email gets that long, it should have become a face to face discussion a long time ago. There's almost always a "question behind the question" and it could be that someone, somewhere wasn't asking their question right and got the whole thing off on a tangent. Best to forget about that email and start over again with the topic. In person.

However, I have known people (we all have) who state things in a certain way because they have an ulterior motive. I am a Greek advisor, and I have some students who are like that. I know that I have to rephrase what they say to me to get to the real point, and also to uncover the "hidden agenda". So, put that email into that context as well...someone could have been trying to figure out how to get around the dry rush rules by backing authority into the corner (I've seen that happen 10,000 times!). Don't automatically assume that the advisor is the one at fault.

Now, Firehouse has an interesting plan there. Don't know if that's the approach I would have taken, but then again I "grew up" under NPC guidelines, which is a whole different ball of wax. You guys know the NIC system the best, so use that knowledge.

I will say this, though. Calm down, figure out what you need clarified by your Greek advisor, and calmly try another face to face discussion. Don't accuse, don't try to box them into a corner, just talk. Honestly, if the advisor doesn't attend the delegate meetings (I don't...I just go to the exec meetings unless something gets stirred up), then he/she may have no clue how messy everything is. The exec may not be giving them the whole picture. You want to have an attitude of collaboration and cooperation when you have this chat. Doesn't mean you have to agree with everything they say...just go gather information. Buy them a Coke or something. Chat. Don't look for evidence that the advisor is against you...just go get information. Once you get that info, then you'll be better prepared to do something. The advisor may not be all that great, and that's reality sometimes. But then again, the advisor just may not really know how this is affecting everyone.

If you can't get the Bylaws from the advisor, ask any of the other IFC delegates...surely someone has a copy or is friendly enough with the IFC exec to get their hands on one.

And Firehouse is right...you will seem more credible if you use better adjectives....

Good Luck and let us know how it goes!!!
PsychTau

[FSUZeta]

great advice firehouse, psychtau and gphib!!

one question: is it mandated that your rush parties have to be held at your houses? if you want alcohol at the parties, could you have those interested meet at the house, take buses to an off site venue, hire a third party vendor and bouncers and hold your recruitment there, (as long as you are complying with your nationals risk management plan)?then have the guys you are interested in over for lunch or dinner at the house or to other events where alcohol would not be expected to be served.

[exlurker]

Originally posted by FSUZeta
great advice firehouse, psychtau and gphib!!

one question: is it mandated that your rush parties have to be held at your houses? if you want alcohol at the parties, could you have those interested meet at the house, take buses to an off site venue, hire a third party vendor and bouncers and hold your recruitment there, (as long as you are complying with your nationals risk management plan)?then have the guys you are interested in over for lunch or dinner at the house or to other events where alcohol would not be expected to be served.

FSUZeta, I think that if mart1240's fraternity is a member of NIC, there could be a problem. Alcohol-free rush and new member activities are part of the NIC standards for its member fraternities. Also, a third party vendor that served any underage guys would risk being fined or having their alcoholic beverage license suspended or yanked. Unfortunately, a lot of fraternities rushees are probably going to be under 21. I can't see having a wet party for rushees but not letting them drink.

I agree that there's been a lot of great advice about how to deal with the IFC and advisor.

[Kevlar281]

Get a copy of the bylaws determine what is not working and amend it and if there so complicated you cant decipher them, then draft entirely new bylaws. It shouldn’t be this difficult. I’ve held two executive positions (president and vice president) on IFC and one rule that we have in our current bylaws is that rush rules must be voted on 30 days before the end of the semester. If yall had something similar, then you would know where this ambiguous two-week dry period would be coming from. At this point I feel like I’m rambling but it really bugs me that a campus with over twenty-two houses could allow two houses to monopolize IFC. Organize a voting slate and kick the shit out of them in elections.

[FSUZeta]

i am a sorority advisor, so believe me, i am all for dry events anyway!!it just sounded to me like mart knew that some people would not comply with the dry rush rule and wondered if he had looked into alternatives. last year i believe that someone linked a story (could it have been you, exlurker?) that highlighted one campus(was it kansas?) where fraternities and sororities were having anything alcohol related off site, contracting thru a third party vendor,color coded bracelets were used for those of drinking age and there were bouncers to check id's and make sure everyone stayed safe. if there is no time to change their rush party plans and he is afraid some of his brothers will not comply, then one solution might be to seek out alternatives-to bend the rules so to speak, but not to break them.

**and i did say that the event should comply with their nationals risk management plan

[gpb1874]

Originally posted by Kevlar281
Get a copy of the bylaws determine what is not working and amend it and if there so complicated you cant decipher them, then draft entirely new bylaws.

agreed! when i started here, the recruitment rules were borderline longer than the women's! yes, i know, that's crazy! when we wrote new ones, i didn't even give the reps a copy of last year's b/c guy's rules shouldn't be too long. it was much easier than debating what was already there. it was more of a discussion about "what rules are we thinking about? can we agree upon them?" so much easier!

FYI - our basic rules:
1 no alcohol at recruitment events - as stated already, must guys who will attend will be under 21 and it is hard to say that fraternities are not all about the parties and drinking when you are at the event drinking and probably at least one brother will do something stupid.

2 no girls

3 no bids from when classes start to when recruitment time is over (aka our official bid day). summer bids are ok as long as HQ allows it.

4 all men must complete a fraternity recruitment application BEFORE being offered a bid so we can check GPA and enrollment status (just in case someone gets the crazy idea to lie about GPA or whether or he was an *actual* enrolled student.

5 all men who are offered an official bid (orally or in writing b/c our NALFO fraternity does not have written bids) must also sign a university bid agreement - it gives me permission to check grades as long as he is a member, states he must complete the NM ed process and is not guaranteed initiation.

yup, that's about it. Oh, and they have to turn in their recruitment events at least one week prior to recruitment and i can stop by if i feel like it. so they shouldn't do anything stoopid. hard to communicate that, but my guys know what i will allow and not.

I like the idea of forming a separate council....it's inventive! it may piss off the IFC advisor, but maybe that is what needs to happen at this point so that you can get his attention. i would be upset about that, but i also have a much better relationship with my chapters than your advisor - they actually come and talk to me!