Badge Question

[Lady Pi Phi]

Okay, in light of the recent and (and somewhat heated debate) about the I.C Sorosis pin, I have a badge question.

Upon someones resignation from the organization usually any Pi Phi related items are asked to be returned to the organization.
So my question is, who owns our badge. Is it the member or the organization?

[angelove]

Not sure about the answer to your question, but hijacking the thread to commiserate with a fellow victim of the "somewhat heated debate" thread - have you noticed how the poster on the other side of that debate only seems to appear in threads about badges and GLO memorabilia? /hijack

If the organization owns the badge, but it's being sold on eBay, is it considered stolen property? Can the organization make a claim with eBay?

[ISUKappa]

Originally posted by angelove
If the organization owns the badge, but it's being sold on eBay, is it considered stolen property? Can the organization make a claim with eBay?

In a nutshell, no. Because posession is 9/10ths of the law and unless you can provide a legally binding signed document or police report stating that it's stolen, the seller has every right to sell it. It's unfortunate, but true. Instead of getting mad at sellers, what our organizations need to focus on is educating members on proper badge disposal so that in the future there will be fewer--and ideally no--badges for sale.

And to answer the other part of your post, that's because that's what he knows most about and is most interested in. He actually is a font of useful knowledge and very nice. I think he's just frustrated at the bad rep the collectors get from the majority of the posters here. That frustration comes through in his posts.

[jharb]

Originally posted by angelove
Not sure about the answer to your question, but hijacking the thread to commiserate with a fellow victim of the "somewhat heated debate" thread - have you noticed how the poster on the other side of that debate only seems to appear in threads about badges and GLO memorabilia? /hijack

I've noticed that and it really annoys me. That poster could care less about the greek community unless it involves badges. That's all I have to say about that or I'm going to make myself mad.

[angelove]

This is from the Arrow archives on the Pi Phi website - in a nutshell, it only addresses disposition of the badge upon the death of a member, not resignation:

A Reminder About Our Badge According to the Pi Beta Phi Constitution, Article XVIII, Section 2:
Collegiate members are expected to wear the Pi Beta Phi badge at all appropriate times.
Wearing of a replica of the I.C. badge is restricted to chapter presidents. The replica badge is the property of the chapter.
No member shall give, sell or lend a Pi Beta Phi badge to any person not a duly initiated member of the Fraternity.
The Pi Beta Phi badge shall be used only as a badge and shall not be used as a mounting on any piece of jewelry.
Upon the death of its owner, a badge may be buried with its owner, bequeathed to a member of the Fraternity or to a collegiate chapter or alumnae club to be used as an honor badge or sent to Headquarters for such disposition as directed by Grand Council.

dakareng can probably give us some good information - she's probably busy working (which is what I should be doing ...)

After these most recent posts, I'm changing my will to say that if I don't have any Pi Phi descendants my badge is going directly to HQ.

[wptw]

This thread asked that question too, and got a lot of good responses, including some from lawyers…

http://forums.greekchat.com/gcforums...threadid=53081

Originally posted by angelove
have you noticed how the poster on the other side of that debate only seems to appear in threads about badges and GLO memorabilia?

Originally posted by jharb
I've noticed that and it really annoys me. That poster could care less about the greek community unless it involves badges. That's all I have to say about that or I'm going to make myself mad.

Why would this annoy you? Don’t you think it should be up to the GC member which topics he does or does not post in?

Once again you’ve generalized about someone you really don’t know anything about. I am a proud and active alumnus of very old and prestigious fraternity. Because of my appreciation for our greek history, I dedicate just about every spare minute of my time to historical research on fraternities and sororities, and my GC posting habits tend to follow that interest. I collect badges, rituals, regalia, photos, pledge manuals, directories, history books and just about everything else greek – so yes, I consider myself an authority on the subject of badges.

Just because I don’t jump onto every inane chatter thread on this forum, do not make the mistake of thinking I don’t care about being greek. You might say I care enough about the greek community to actually point out when I don’t think we’re living up to our ideals like we’re supposed to.

I mean, in this particular case, basically people insulted that woman because she sold a pin. Insulted her publicly. With no chance for her to rebut. A woman whose family had previously been very generous to the sorority. They wanted her to give away a $5k item and she declined. So they called her a greedy %$*#(@. Pretty much sum it up? * Do you really not see that that behavior is inappropriate for people who are supposed to uphold a higher standard of conduct? If you don’t see that, then I guess we have nothing more to talk about.

* Then when someone disagreed with what was said, you came over here to a more secluded forum and posted something unflattering about HIM.



ISUkappa, thanks very much for the kind words. They seem to have been lost on this audience, but I appreciate it nonetheless. Other rescue orgs have learned that collectors like me can be very helpful to their efforts. But I suppose it took KKG and GphiB a while to realize that, so it will take ADPi and Pi Phi some time as well.

wptw

[jharb]

I'm not going to get into an argument with you over this, but I would like to say that I refrained from posting on the original thread and responded to something one of my sisters said. I'm allowed to be annoyed with anything I want to be annoyed with. Right now I'm annoyed at the man riding his motorcycle in the parking lot. He is allowed to ride his motorcycle in the parking lot as it is public property. I am allowed to have an emotional reaction to what someone else is doing.

I don't know you, all I do know is that everytime someone on here posts about a badge and complains about people selling things that mean a lot to them you post. I don't see you posting on threads about Risk Management or recruitment or on how to better the greek system. Instead it appears to me that you just want to lecture us on what is right or wrong. We're women, we're emotional, and when we're upset about something we may be verbal. I'm sorry that my comment offended you but unless I'm mistaken I have the option of free will and can feel however I want.

[WCUgirl]

Pardon the interruption ladies - but where DID that original thread go? Has it been deleted?

(and jharb - what a GREAT explanation! props to you!)

[angelove]

After I die, if my badge ends up on eBay, I'm going to come back and haunt wptw.

[wptw]

Originally posted by jharb
We're women, we're emotional, and when we're upset about something we may be verbal.

Best explanation I’ve heard all day.

OK, I’ll be sure to also berate people in the Risk Management and Recruitment threads from now on – not just on badge threads.

Originally posted by angelove
After I die, if my badge ends up on eBay, I'm going to come back and haunt wptw.

That’s a date.

wptw

[jharb]

Originally posted by wptw
Best explanation I’ve heard all day.

OK, I’ll be sure to also berate people in the Risk Management and Recruitment threads from now on – not just on badge threads.

Works for me.

[dakareng]

And now back to the ORIGINAL question which was posted in the PI PHI forum and is NOT about whether or not the relative who sold the IC badge was not looking to make some big bucks (I doubt it was appraised at $5K.... that is the what the collector who purchased it paid) or whether or not Pi Phis have a right to discuss our feelings about a heritage badge being sold at public auction... I think we Pi Phis DO have the right to discuss it in OUR forum. If you don't like that, you don't have to visit our forum.

As individual members of Pi Beta Phi, we purchase our badges (the plain badge being included in the initiation fees) so they do belong to the member *but* when a member resigns, they no longer have the right to wear the arrow badge and it is supposed to be returned to HQ. I suppose if someone had purchased a jeweled badge, they could argue the point and I do remember a pledge sister of mine selling her jeweled arrow to her little sis prior to resigning.

[wptw]

Karen, the whole thing has settled down, so don't open it up again. I only came into this PUBLIC forum because people were specifically discussing ME. We settled it, and I was out of here.

Want me out of YOUR forum? Then drop the snarky jabs and the CAPSLOCK attitude and get on with your discussion. Or if you'd rather keep up the pissing contest until this thread is deleted as well, I'm game for that too. Up to you.

And it wasn't a collector who won that badge. Check their auction history. I'll bet you the winner turns out to be a Pi Phi.

wptw

[arrowgirl]

Well, a person may consider a topic "done" but if someone else hasn't had the opportunity to share their opinion and decides to share it, then it really isn't "done". So really, she can say whatever she wants. Whenever she wants. Regardless of what you think. Deal.

[piphimaggie]

oi ve.....
Badge discussion is a way for members to come together and share with one another their love of their fraternity/sorority. Yes, sometimes it will become passionate, and sometimes reason takes a backseat to emotion, but isn't that simple human nature? We're told to love Pi Beta Phi and everything it stands for. A lot of meaning is embedded within those badges and it does pull at our heart strings to see those lovely items fall into the hands of someone who cannot begin to comprehend the depth of meaning they hold in their hands. We all hope the winners of every PiPhi badge auction is a PiPhi, however, the overwhelming trend has told us not to trust our hopes and instead inquire into the identity of the highest bidders. Every woman with an unhealthy obsession with the internet and GC would do the same for her sorority, not just the PiPhis