White teachers fleeing black schools

[Honeykiss1974]

From www.cnn/education.com

White teachers fleeing black schools
Monday, January 13, 2003 Posted: 1:31 PM EST (1831 GMT)


DECATUR, Georgia (AP) -- Jason Johnston took a job at mostly black Midway Elementary School in hopes he could make a difference with the children who needed him most.

But Johnston, one of only a handful of white teachers at the school, decided to leave after less than a year, disillusioned by pupils who struggled, parents who weren't involved and the constant pressure to meet state achievement standards.

"It wasn't what I expected," explains Johnston, who now teaches high-performing fourth-graders at a wealthy, mostly white Atlanta school.

"It's not because of race issues," he says. "It's about where you feel comfortable."

Johnston is part of an exodus of white teachers from black schools that some see as a troubling symptom of the resegregation of the South.

As decades-long court busing orders are loosened or lifted, the region's schools have become increasingly segregated. And a new study suggests that the trend is having a dramatic effect on where teachers choose to teach.

Race factor
Three Georgia State University professors found that during the late '90s white elementary school teachers in Georgia were much more likely to quit at schools with higher proportions of black students.

After the 1999-2000 school year, 31 percent of white teachers quit their jobs at schools where the student population was more than 70 percent black, and those who changed jobs went to schools that served lower proportions of black and poor pupils.

"The race of the student body is the driving factor behind teacher turnover," the researchers wrote. Other studies have found white teacher flight increasing -- in California, New York, Texas and North Carolina -- but only the Georgia State study singled out how race factored into the phenomenon.

Many Georgia teachers say they felt pressured to leave low-performing schools after the state passed an education reform law that tied teacher pay to test scores. Still, the study found that white teachers were leaving predominantly black schools even in the Atlanta city and suburban DeKalb County districts that were among the state's highest paying.

"It's discouraging," says study co-author Ben Scafidi, an assistant professor of economics, public administration and urban studies. "And the most depressing part ... is our evidence suggests that even large wage increases won't help."

Elise Crisp teaches at DeKalb County's Avondale High School, where the student body is nearly 100 percent black. She has been there for six years and seen other white teachers leave for more affluent schools, with more white students.

She says some are overwhelmed by the culture shock of an all-black school; others just want to work closer to home.

"I just don't have those problems," said Crisp, who teaches English. "I really see no difference in what my job is, whether the students are black or white. They're children. It's my job to teach."

Teacher exodus
But John Evans, president of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People in DeKalb County, says no one should be surprised to see young white teachers leave for the suburbs after a year or two. Many teachers, especially young women, are scared of black neighborhoods and don't want to be there after dark, he says.

Evans rejects the idea that black schools can't be successful without white teachers. If they don't want to be there, then let them go, he says.

However, there simply aren't enough black teachers to go around. Only 20 percent of Georgia teachers are black, but black students make up 40 percent of the public school population.

That means high teacher turnover at black schools, which hurts the quality of instruction, Scafidi says. Schools that have a lot of teaching positions to fill every year can't be as selective. They also wind up with more inexperienced teachers.

During the late '90s, there was a rapid increase in elementary school construction in Georgia, and the state mandated smaller class sizes. This created more jobs and made it easier for all teachers, both black and white, to switch schools. But it still doesn't explain why black schools got hit the hardest by teachers turnover, Scafidi says.

Mike Worthington, Avondale High's principal, says some of the blame rests on university education schools. Because they don't train teachers for a diverse classroom, some young white teachers are bewildered by black schools, he says.

"They just don't know," says Worthington, who is white. "They perhaps don't understand their students, and the nuances and the style and the dress."

But that's no excuse, says Mike Gluck, a white guidance counselor who has worked at Avondale for 22 years and has covered his office wall with photos of students, white and black.

"I think it's a cop-out," Gluck says. "Whether they're white, black, rich or poor, they all have needs."



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Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. (Ok, I know I am violating these rules, so don't tell on me )

[Honeykiss1974]

I thought this was an interesting article that addressed some key issues. What do you GC educators think? Is this the situation at your school?

[CrimsonTide4]

Bottom line: Teachers leave. WHite and Black. This is my 5th year teaching and it is a struggle for me to remain.

The article pointed out key factors that effect the exodus in general but examined it in terms of White classroom teachers.

1. I have a rapport with some of my Black students that a White teacher will never have. I have talked to this white teacher who does not understand the "teasing" that her Black students do. Yall she is talking about the dozens. That rapport allows me a stronger comfort level in my classroom that makes my job less stressful.

2. MY SALARY as low as that thing is should not be tied to performance on tests. Not all students are good test takers. Not all students come to school. Not all students give less than 2 good got damns about a test. Some students come to school because they know they are going to get fed that day.

Since coming to Charlotte, I have this pacing guide that is RIDAMNDICOULOUS. It is CRAMMED FULL. Too full IMO. My class schedule is A/B which means the kids essentially have 8 classes for the year, 4 a day. They have an A DAY SCHEDULE and a B DAY SCHEDULE -- this does not work for all students, especially those who have poor retention; poor attendance, ETC.

Whooooooooooo let me take a breather.

Bottom line is: Teachers should be WHERE they are most comfortable. If you are not comfortable, will you be effective? If you are not effective, are you helping the kids?

What needs to happen is MORE parental involvement; more mentor relationships, etc. TEACHERS do their jobs. Parents need to do theirs. YEAH I SAID IT!! Instead of tying up my paycheck if FUNQUISHA SHAQUIERIEH WASHINGTON does not excel on the test, get her parents for not sending her to school EVERY DAY. Get her parents from all the stuff that keeps her from doing better in school. Teach Jeremy (white student) how to spell pencil BEFORE THE 9TH GRADE!!!!

[Steeltrap]

Originally posted by CrimsonTide4 (in part)
FUNQUISHA SHAQUIERIEH WASHINGTON

Excuse me for going off-topic, but...
CTFU. CTFU. CTFU. CTTTFFFUUUU!!!!

[Honeykiss1974]

CT4, you didn't have to bring FUNQUISHA into this!! *lol* She a good girl !!

I didn't know until I read this article that a teachers salary was tied to performance scores. This is a such a bad idea. In the past, what were salaries (or increases) based on?

[CrimsonTide4]

Originally posted by Honeykiss1974
CT4, you didn't have to bring FUNQUISHA into this!! *lol* She a good girl !!

I didn't know until I read this article that a teachers salary was tied to performance scores. This is a such a bad idea. In the past, what were salaries (or increases) based on?

Every school district has a base salary but some districts, especially larger school districts have "incentives" if the school meets targeted test scores, improve test scores, attendance, dropout rate, etc. etc.

Let me go back, I had time to think and stuff.

Teacher education programs do not necessarily prepare future teachers for all that they can and will possibly encounter as teachers.

All white teachers should be exposed to all Black or predominantly Black schools in their teacher education experiences. The same should happen with Black teachers and White students. IMO, Black folks are more able to adapt to majority WHITE situations than WHITES are with BLACKS. This is not a racist or prejudiced statement, this is the truth.

There are a lot of parameters that the educational field contains. It is harder than the most difficult QUADRATIC equation.

We need to get back to basics. We have all this STUFF yet kids leave school with less ability than a generation ago.

[Steeltrap]

When did test scores become the be-all, end-all? About a year ago, I was reading a New York Times commentary about integration, and the author suggested that voluntary busing, among other things, fell victim to test-score mania.

His point was that integration was NEVER specifically designed to improve test scores, but to give people of color the skills to negotiate a majority-white world. I suspect his worldview is a liberal one that's now out of favor, but I digress.

And CT4, I agree with your point. We have adapted, as it were, because we often don't have a choice.

[Blackwatch]

I took a graduate course in the Sociology of Education last fall with a great deal of teachers and many of these issues were examined. The issue of intergration is very interesting. During an online discussion for the class, I suggested, out of frustration, that black people probably need to push for resegregation of schools, because the white teachers at this school that I was studying, just didn't expect anything from the black students. When I talked with the professor, (a white women), she said that this might be a good idea, because the cultural differences, the lack of black teachers and lowered expectations were just destroying the educational opportunities for the black students. True, parents need to be more involved with the education of their children, but undrestand this, if the parent was raised in the same environment and educated by the same out of touch, ineffective school system, what type of knowledge, trust, and confidence will they have that
(a) their children will be able to succeed in school and (b) that the school system will be able to educate their child?

If the parent doesn't see the importance of education, then they will not be involved in their child's education. I taught 3rd graders last summer who could not add single digit numbers. When I talked to the parent about this, she said it wasn't a concern because Desmorez (The boy's real name) brought home A's and B's. She didn't even think that she should sit down with her own son and teach him how to add because that was the school's job. This bring's up a whole other topic about parenting, but I think to simply say that parents need to get involved is simply restating the obvious and not really offering any real insight into how we can better educate our children. This semester, I am trying, (through the fraternity) to organize a parental educational symposium that will offer uninvolved parents access to information such as curriculum guidleines for their kids (so that if 16 year old Shaunte is bringing home single digit addition problems as her math homework, they can know that something is wrong!!!), information about college requirements, financial aid, tutoring programs, as well as motivation to take responsibility for their own child's education, seeing that an eduation is the best way out of the situations they do not want their children to end up in. I don't know how well this will work, but it a start. Many parents are just poor parents, but I think more parents just do not know about these things, and to help them to know can go a long ways in empowering them the help their children.

Blackwatch!!!!!!

[CrimsonTide4]

Originally posted by Blackwatch
True, parents need to be more involved with the education of their children, but undrestand this, if the parent was raised in the same environment and educated by the same out of touch, ineffective school system, what type of knowledge, trust, and confidence will they have that
(a) their children will be able to succeed in school and (b) that the school system will be able to educate their child?

If the parent doesn't see the importance of education, then they will not be involved in their child's education. I taught 3rd graders last summer who could not add single digit numbers. When I talked to the parent about this, she said it wasn't a concern because Desmorez (The boy's real name) brought home A's and B's. She didn't even think that she should sit down with her own son and teach him how to add because that was the school's job. This bring's up a whole other topic about parenting, but I think to simply say that parents need to get involved is simply restating the obvious and not really offering any real insight into how we can better educate our children. This semester, I am trying, (through the fraternity) to organize a parental educational symposium that will offer uninvolved parents access to information such as curriculum guidleines for their kids (so that if 16 year old Shaunte is bringing home single digit addition problems as her math homework, they can know that something is wrong!!!), information about college requirements, financial aid, tutoring programs, as well as motivation to take responsibility for their own child's education, seeing that an eduation is the best way out of the situations they do not want their children to end up in. I don't know how well this will work, but it a start. Many parents are just poor parents, but I think more parents just do not know about these things, and to help them to know can go a long ways in empowering them the help their children.

Blackwatch!!!!!!

That is part of the problem, too many parents see the teacher as the ONLY responsible party for their child learning information. The PARENT is the FIRST teacher!!

Kudos on your symposium! That will go a long way to bridging the gap between teachers and parents. If more parents do SOMETHING, ANYTHING to get more involved with their kids in terms of their education, then less friction will happen between parents and teachers. My mom was @ the school. All of my teachers knew you can call Mrs. CT4 and get some sho nuff results.

I know that a lot of parents do not trust the educational system, but even if it did not work FOR THEM when they were students, then as PARENTS they should (optimistic POV) do double effort to get the BEST for their kid. If the parent does not understand the work, then you get to the classroom too and learn alongside your child or attend adult literacy classes or SOMETHING.

The only way we can have kids VALUE education is if they see their parents valuing education as well.

There was a breakdown in education somewhere and that breakdown is hurting our kids TODAY and their kids TOMORROW.

[nikki1920]

Another problem is lack of accountablity. Look at the situation in DC (DC Teachers union leaders are accused of using union funds for personal items--furs, art, wigs--to the tune of $2 million). When the teachers are frustrated, who do they have to turn to? What kind of support do they get? What kind of support do parents get? The kids get the least support, IMO. Everyone wants them to produce better test scores (never mind grades) with less money for books, supplies, etc.

I'm sending my kid to private school...

[miss priss]

Nikki, I can't say I blame you....But, when it all boils down it is about money. Test scores =money. See, the underlying factor is the push to support the school voucher program nationally to encourage parents like you to send their child to private schools.
That way the rich can get the same incentives as a poor kid whose parents receive assisstance.

Why do you think they are pushing this whole test thing? Or even holding teachers accountable for what the parents should be doing?
It is all politics and our children are suffering from the brunt of it.

It is sad when a child in the 8th grade can barely write as well as a 4 year old but is allowed to take a test that he can barely bubble in a scantron correctly. I have been told numerous times that if they don't understand then move along and they will pick it up later and they never do. They then teach the test YES I SAID IT and the kid graduates with no skills. This particularly happens with our black and hispanic children. This practice is wrong but until some parent sues and it appears on Good Morning America it will not be addressed.

[nikki1920]

Miss Priss: I'm right with you. In MD, students have to pass four state tests in order to graduate: reading, writing, math and civics. Why did we have SENIORS who could not pass the reading and writing tests? I mean reading an eighth grade level short (five paragraphs) story and writing a short essay (beginning middle and end, paragraph at least five sentences long). I didint understand that in HS, but as I got older, I understood how some people dont test well, some do better on essays (me), some excel at MC (not me). I have serious issues with the No Child Left Behind Act (all filler, no substance--basically it says produce these results with the little you have now, or risk losing federal funding)
I had to leave my grad program in Special Ed because I got so frustrated with the idiotic policies. I love working with children but we have GOT to start doing better by them.

[Ideal08]

Originally posted by miss priss
Test scores =money

That summed it up in a nutshell!!! You took the words right out of my mouth!!! Coming from a boarding perspective, it's about a lot more than test scores. Book smarts do not guarantee success in this world. But that is the main focus here, because that's what gets the funding. Too bad if Josephine and Johnny are homeless and Shannon's mother is a crackhead and Melissa was raped and Tanya was sexually abused by Uncle Jimmy so that's why she's promiscuous, etc. TOO BAD. They don't get (or more likely don't care) that this all has an effect on a student's performance in school. Bottom line: focus on the academic, get those test scores up, get us some money, and let your kids fall through the cracks in the meantime.

Now I know that a lot of houseparents here (we are teachers, just not in the classroom) leave because they can't deal with all of the different issues that the kids face. I know that I definitely was a little naive to the level of responsibility that the job required. I tip my hat to academic teachers, because I don't think I could handle being in the classroom. But at my school, those aren't the teachers that are leaving, it's the houseparents. We've lost two White HP's already. One due to the fact that she simply couldn't hack working with these kids, and one because she couldn't work with the administration.

These kids don't have basic skills. How can you teach algebra to an 8th grader who does not know what the words SUM, DIFFERENCE, PRODUCT, and QUOTIENT refer to? Do you think that they start over with them? Nope. You get it or you don't. So the brunt of that falls on the shoulders of the houseparents. WE are up until 3am trying to figure out how to make sure our kids don't fail. I guess after a while, people get burned out, so they leave.

Originally posted by nikki1920
Another problem is lack of accountablity. Look at the situation in DC (DC Teachers union leaders are accused of using union funds for personal items--furs, art, wigs--to the tune of $2 million). When the teachers are frustrated, who do they have to turn to? What kind of support do they get? What kind of support do parents get? The kids get the least support, IMO. Everyone wants them to produce better test scores (never mind grades) with less money for books, supplies, etc.

This is too true. Girl, when I saw that mess on the news about the union and the $2 million, I just shook my head. There is no one to turn to, the administration here has a nasty attitude. Instead of listening and making changes, they say, "Whatever, if you want to quit, quit." Hence, once frustrated and unhappy, they leave. Why should anyone stay where they are unhappy? Not to mention stressed and sick.

Originally posted by BlackWatch!!!!!!
black people probably need to push for resegregation of schools, because the white teachers at this school that I was studying, just didn't expect anything from the black students.

This is SO true!! I tell my students this all the time, that the teachers don't expect enough from them, if anything at all. What they DO expect, however, is bad behavior and failure. Sad but true. Some of the teachers truly care, and you can tell. Others, I can't for the life of me figure out why they are even here. They are not invested in these kids' futures. I say this at faculty meetings all the time, this is not a JOB. If you are looking at it as a JOB, you needn't be here. Simply put, it's not for everybody.

Anyway, I'm rambling.

[AKA2D '91]

Originally posted by CrimsonTide4
Bottom line: Teachers leave. WHite and Black. This is my 5th year teaching and it is a struggle for me to remain.

LMAO! I was thinking to myself...uhhhhhhhh I need to flee, and I'm not white.

I didn't read the article (yet), but just from the title of the thread with all the constant added stressors educators are facing, this trend (PERSONS fleeing the education field regardless of color) will continue to increase.

[CrimsonTide4]

I was thinking about this topic this morning as I got dressed and drove to work.

A few years ago I attended a workshop or seminar about Cultural Differences in Teaching and Learning. At this workshop I was told and this is a very loose paraphrase that Black students need a CONNECTION to the material to fully learn it as well as they need to have a CONNECTION with the teacher whereas WHITE STUDENTS learn it to learn it. Meaning that I can stand on my head all day long and tell you Shakespeare wrote Romeo and Juliet but unless I provide some sort of CONNECTION to their life, it does not have the same amount of meaning. Not only that but kids can sense who is there for them, looking out for their best interest, etc. If I make learning tangible to their life experience, I am bound to have more impact and that shows in their academic performance.


I teach my kids in a nontraditional manner (to me) and I dang sure do not teach to the test because bottom line there is LIFE after the test. That life for some is college. The little piddly poo tests they give here do not help our students prepare for college. Our students are not critical thinkers. These tests do not test critical thinking.

I have kids who swear they are the bomb writers because they scored a 4 on a writing sample. I CAN'T TELL!!! These kids (BLACK and WHITE) are horrible writers. HORRIBLE!!! TERRIBLE!! But because they took some writing sample that had to be scored in XYZ days by folks randomly hired who will get paid regardless who do not know my kids, they get a score that makes them think they are the next Nikki Giovanni or Langston Hughes.

Of course, tests results equal money. They have ALWAYS equaled money. Good scores on SATs = scholarship $$. Good scores on standardized tests = more money for school districts. Now that the money is tied to salaries and "merit bonuses" people wanna throw hissy fits.