IFC Guys: Help

breathesgelatin · #1 08-04-2003, 01:23 AM

OK.

As you may or may not know, Sigma Phi Epsilon at my college (Washington and Lee University) had their charter revoked by their nationals for no concrete reason. It's really bizarre.

However, this thread is not about that.

Almost definately accurate word has it that these guys are actively pursuing colonization with another national IFC group that will remain nameless. They claim that if the SigEp nationals were to grant them permission, they could colonize and rush a new pledge class (which would pledge in the winter; we have deferred rush). This new pledge class could initiate into the new group, whereas the initiated SigEps would not, but would be considered 'social members'. Is this at all possible? Is it completely off the wall? Even if it is possible, do you think SigEp will grant them permission?

Firehouse · #2 08-04-2003, 01:34 AM

Your situation sounds very complicated, but there have been instances where a 'fallen' chapter has been picked up whole by another national fraternity. There's a gentlemen's agreement not to go full-bore chasing after each other's chapters, but if you were wrongly suspended then, yes, I can think of some aggressive nationals who would be interested, especially at a fine school like W&L.

GeekyPenguin · #3 08-04-2003, 03:04 AM

From what I've heard of SigEp's national policies, I can't see them agreeing to release those guys. There was a brother on my campus who had a hell of a time just resigning - and that was from a newly initiated colony, not a chapter like yours.

Kevin · #4 08-04-2003, 03:42 AM

I'm not familiar with the individual reasons for their expulsion, but a W&L chapter is usually going to be a pretty financially secure chapter. They must have really exposed the general fraternity to some serious liability to get their charter revoked.

Even if they could officially resign, what group in their right mind would expose themselves to that kind of risk (assuming they know what is going on).?

1896_kai_ · #5 08-04-2003, 09:20 AM

This doesnt sound abnormal. My chapter was kicked off campus 5 years ago for various reasons, and was permitted to return upon one condition. You must understand that we had 90 active brothers with 40 living in a House that now comfortable fits 20. The condition of our return to campus was that all but 5 members of the fraternity had to leave. Those 5, who had been newly inititated, restarted our chapter while the rest were not permitted to return.

As far as I know, this kind of agreement can be worked out either through the school or naitonal headquarters.

moe.ron · #6 08-04-2003, 09:26 AM

I belive the original poster was wondering if its possible that the particular SigEp chapter becomes an XYZ chapter.

I doubt SigEp's HQ would agree to that. More likely they'll wait till the current undergrad all graduate and restarts.

Firehouse · #7 08-04-2003, 09:37 AM

On the rare occasion that it does happen there are supposed to be agreements and 'releases' but it never seems to actually happen that way. Usually, the 'new' fraternity comes to campus and simply picks up all the individuals from the old group - not as a chapter but as a core of new members. I've seen it done.

moe.ron · #8 08-04-2003, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Firehouse
On the rare occasion that it does happen there are supposed to be agreements and 'releases' but it never seems to actually happen that way. Usually, the 'new' fraternity comes to campus and simply picks up all the individuals from the old group - not as a chapter but as a core of new members. I've seen it done.

What would happen to the infrastrucuter, aka the house? If they would also claim the house, I doubt SigEp HQ would agree to that.

33girl · #9 08-04-2003, 10:11 AM

I'm with Firehouse...I've heard of this done. If it is a situation where these guys got screwed for no really good reason, it's very feasible. The fraternity picking them up usually takes the tack that since the nationals of the first group (in this case Sig Ep) did not act gentlemanly toward their brothers, it renders null and void the "gentleman's agreement" not to pick up another group's closed chapter. That's the way I perceive it, anyway.

PSK480 · #10 08-04-2003, 10:42 AM

I was told that you have to wait a certain number of years as a chapter before joining another national org unless released officially by your national. So they might be stuck making themselves a local and trying to get a national to take them in after the set time has passed. But, I could see a new national coming in and taking the old SigEps as a core group, and the new guys would be members of the new national org. I also thought that once you joined one NIC org you couldn't join another.

madmax · #11 08-04-2003, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Arya
What would happen to the infrastrucuter, aka the house? If they would also claim the house, I doubt SigEp HQ would agree to that.

The house is owned by the school.

madmax · #12 08-04-2003, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by breathesgelatin
OK.

As you may or may not know, Sigma Phi Epsilon at my college (Washington and Lee University) had their charter revoked by their nationals for no concrete reason. It's really bizarre.

However, this thread is not about that.

Almost definately accurate word has it that these guys are actively pursuing colonization with another national IFC group that will remain nameless. They claim that if the SigEp nationals were to grant them permission, they could colonize and rush a new pledge class (which would pledge in the winter; we have deferred rush). This new pledge class could initiate into the new group, whereas the initiated SigEps would not, but would be considered 'social members'. Is this at all possible? Is it completely off the wall? Even if it is possible, do you think SigEp will grant them permission?

I don't think it is off the wall. It has been done before. I don't think they need perimssion from SigEp nationals. If the new national wants them there isn't much SigEp can do about it. The "rule" about not joining another NIC organization isn't a contract, it's just a gentleman's agreement.

breathesgelatin · #13 08-04-2003, 01:22 PM

A few things about SigEp at my school. Here is the official reason they were suspended (cut and pasted from the risk management forum):

SPE suspends W&L Chapter
Wednesday, July 16, 2003

W&L fraternity suspended

___The Sigma Phi Epsilon fraternity at Washington and Lee University has been suspended for three years by its own national board. In a letter to parents of the 40 chapter members, the Richmond-based organization cited alleged alcohol abuse, "questionable membership activities" and "regular disdain and combative relations" with its alumni, volunteers and headquarters staff. The chapter also failed to correct a slipping grade point average, the letter said. The fraternity's behavior failed to improve despite intervention by its headquarters and its housing corporation, a group of alumni who manage the chapter's business and household affairs. The fraternity did nothing that violated W&L's policy against hazing pledges, according to outgoing W&L Dean of Students David Howison.

Now, let me tell you. Their numbers had NOT been declining. I think their numbers for the past three years were 15, 14, 13. Big decline, eh? Most fraternities at W&L are happy if they can get 12. Only a few groups EVER pull more than 15. Yet, SigEp nationals had been pressuring them to get 20 for ages--which is ridiculous. Only the two 'football' houses and KA--the Alpha chapter--ever pull 20. When Lambda Chi got 18 my freshman year, that was considered astounding. We have 15 fraternities fighting for 200 or so guys--you do the math!

Their GPA was really not bad. The guys are smart, involved, kick ass at intramurals. They had had some disagreements with nationals--their nationals didn't want them to fire their house mother. They did, and a month later their charter was gone. The campus consensus is that the house mother probably told nationals about some "questionable membership activities" and the charter was gone. Everyone was confused--SigEp is about the last group you'd expect to lose their charter on campus. We've all known that we'd probably lose a group in the next few years, but SigEp was not one we were expecting.

So, yes, they are trying to colonize as a new national IFC fraternity. I know which one but I'd rather not say. I don't think SigEp nationals will give the go-ahead though--although the school would probably be relieved. They like SigEp (smart guys, active in service, accepting (the first openly gay student body prez was a member), diverse (lots of international/minority guys), plus the school is struggling to house the brothers right now. The campus would be glad--they're known as decent guys who still know how to have fun. However, my personal assessment is not very hopeful.

Sigma Sage · #14 08-04-2003, 01:35 PM

The funny thing is that this situation occured on my campus about 6 years ago, and again involved Sig Ep. To make a long story short, Sig Ep got into some trouble and lost their IFC recoginition, meaning they could not have a formal rush. However, they had their own rush, and still were able to bring in about 15 guys. Anyway, they initiated these 15, and were starting to have problems with their nationals. So out of nowhere DKE came into town and literally knocked on the door, and talked the chapter into going DKE. Next thing you know, some guys left, some guys stayed, and within days the DKE letters were on the house. This lasted about two weeks, until Sig Ep's nationals caught wind and shut them down. Sig Ep Nationals still owned the house! DKE left and never came back. And the men remaining had nothing.

madmax · #15 08-04-2003, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by breathesgelatin

So, yes, they are trying to colonize as a new national IFC fraternity. I know which one but I'd rather not say. I don't think SigEp nationals will give the go-ahead though--although the school would probably be relieved. They like SigEp (smart guys, active in service, accepting (the first openly gay student body prez was a member), diverse (lots of international/minority guys), plus the school is struggling to house the brothers right now. The campus would be glad--they're known as decent guys who still know how to have fun. However, my personal assessment is not very hopeful.

If W&L wants them so bad they can just rent them the house since they own it, and Sigma Phi Epsilon can just change their name to Sigma Epsilon.