"Urban" Culture Overkill

[Bamboozled]

Okay, maybe it's just me, but I am already SO sick of these movies/TV shows that are supposedly geared towards the so-called "hip-hop" generation. I mean, the media has completely sucked the life out of this supposed culture. Is this what hip-hop has really come to? I understand that it is now a mainstream genre, but dang, can't it at least keep some of the integrity and sub-culturalism that it was founded upon? You might be saying, Bamboozled, what are you griping about now? You're way too sensitive. Why can't mainstream America just enjoy hip-hop for the same reasons that you do? My problem is not the cross over appeal that hip-hop has (well, not really). What bothers me is the inevitable bastardization that ensues once something is exploited soley for capitalistic purposes. And we wonder why people are comfortable having "Ghetto Fabulous" mixers and all that other madness. Please share your thoughts with me on this topic. If you think I'm crazy and just searching for something to beef about, let me know that as well. I just never thought that hip-hop would become as American as apple pie. I believe in giving examples, so I give you "Bringing Down the House" (which I have no desire to see for the reasons listed above) and the following two new comers:

Malibu's Most Wanted

http://malibusmostwanted.warnerbros.com/ Please check out the link!

Malibu's most wanted rapper, Brad "B-Rad" Gluckman, maintains a hip-hop lifestyle that is seriously hindering his father's bid for governor. When his dad's campaign manager tries to neutralize the "problem" and teach him a lesson about what gangsta life is really like, B-Rad proves to the player-haters that he's for real and wins the affection of a business-savvy South Central hottie.

Cast: Jamie Kennedy (Brad Gluckman), Anthony Anderson, Taye Diggs, (Why Taye agreed to put his name on this mess, I'll never understand. I guess he needs to get paid too.) Regina Hall, Ryan O'Neal (Mr. Gluckman), Blair Underwood, Greg Grunberg, Keili Lefkowitz, J.P. Manoux, Niecy Nash, Kal Penn, Nick Swardson (Mocha), Damien Wayans




And....



PLATINUM is a family saga that follows two brothers who own and operate a record company in the competitive world of rap and hip-hop. The show revolves around a pair of brothers and record industry moguls Jackson and Grady Rhames, who are the archetype of rags-to-riches success after building their company, Platinum Records, from the ground up. Clawing their way up from the streets, the brothers have created a successful record company in the high-stakes hip-hop music business. Though they are deeply trusting of and dependent upon one another, the brothers approach business in starkly contrasting fashions.

PLATINUM is set in New York against the backdrop of the glamorous hip-hop lifestyle - a cutthroat and sometimes dangerous business notorious for its flashy stars with money to burn and ruthless record executives who stop at nothing to make it big. Standing by the brothers' side is their childhood friend and chief counsel David Weitz, their younger sister Jade Rhames and Jackson's wife Monica Rhames.

PLATINUM stars Jason George (“Barbershop,” “Sunset Beach”) as Jackson Rhames, Sticky Fingaz (from the rap group Onyx, “Dead Presidents”) as Grady Rhames, Steven Pasquale as DavidRoss, Lalanya Masters as Monica Rhames and Davetta Sherwood as Jade Rhames.

[33girl]

Originally posted by Bamboozled
Okay, maybe it's just me, but I am already SO sick of these movies/TV shows that are supposedly geared towards the so-called "hip-hop" generation. I mean, the media has completely sucked the life out of this supposed culture. Is this what hip-hop has really come to? I understand that it is now a mainstream genre, but dang, can't it at least keep some of the integrity and sub-culturalism that it was founded upon? You might be saying, Bamboozled, what are you griping about now? You're way too sensitive. Why can't mainstream America just enjoy hip-hop for the same reasons that you do? My problem is not the cross over appeal that hip-hop has (well, not really). What bothers me is the inevitable bastardization that ensues once something is exploited soley for capitalistic purposes. And we wonder why people are comfortable having "Ghetto Fabulous" mixers and all that other madness. Please share your thoughts with me on this topic. If you think I'm crazy and just searching for something to beef about, let me know that as well. I just never thought that hip-hop would become as American as apple pie.

Bamboozled, I saw a special once on Jack Kerouac and the other Beat poets and the Beat movement in general, and they pretty much said EXACTLY the same thing you are saying. Closer to our time, I'm sure nobody from Seattle thought their anti-mainstream tortured soul tunes would be on Muzak.

It's gotten to the point where I'm afraid to tell people about music or anything else I like, for fear it will end up as the latest Happy Meal toy or a storyline on one of those insipid Disney teen sitcoms.

[Confucius]

Malibu is such a slap in the face to hip hop culture and the producers of this movie know it.

[Sistermadly]

I can see the bull**** factor in "Malibu's Most Wanted", but when you live in an area where there aren't that many black folks, and hip hop is the music of choice by people of a certain age -- regardless of their colour -- it starts to make a little more sense. The way they see it, it's less about mimicking a race, and more about belonging to a universal culture.

(Yeah, we know where that culture came from - but when Eminem is the most popular rapper on the planet, and most of his fans were born in the 80s and don't know the history behind the culture of hip-hop, what can you expect? )

And am I wrong for wanting to see "Platinum"? I thought it might be interesting to check out the first hip-hop mini-series...

[33girl]

along these lines, they've been playing an instrumental version of "Come on Ride the Train" as background on the Weather Channel. What is THAT about???!?!!

[Dionysus]

Originally posted by 33girl
along these lines, they've been playing an instrumental version of "Come on Ride the Train" as background on the Weather Channel. What is THAT about???!?!!

OH MY DAMN! I was thinking the same thing!
I was CTFU.

[sigmadiva]

I think this issue is funny in a sad way. If I remember correctly, and someone correct me if I am wrong, at the turn of the century, around 1900's - 1920's -ish, Jazz and most Balck music was banned by some Whites for having a 'jungle sound'. These Whites did not want their children listening to Black music because they felt it would corrupt their kids. The same trend occurred in the 50's and 60's, until Elvis made it okay for Whites to listen to R&B and R&B type music. It seems the more these Whites tried to keep their children away from Black music, the more their kids want to hear it and emulate (sp?) the musicians. Lets just face it, people like music with a beat.

Another thing, you know how mad we, as Blacks, get over these White frats having a 'Ghetto party', dressing up in Black face and 'Pimps and Hos' party? Well, movies like 'Malibu' justify their reason, which is, I assume, 'If it is acceptable in a movie, then it should be acceptable for a party theme'.

[Bamboozled]

Originally posted by Sistermadly
(Yeah, we know where that culture came from - but when Eminem is the most popular rapper on the planet, and most of his fans were born in the 80s and don't know the history behind the culture of hip-hop, what can you expect? )

What can I expect? I can expect the hip-hop tradition to remain one of pride and dignity, not the present day minstrel show that it has become. As a matter of fact, it's killing me to call what we're discussing hip-hop, because this is the antithesis of what hip-hop is. Now, don't get me wrong. I don't blame the media 100%. I also blame these shuckin' and jivin' rappers and the actors who genuflect before these bogus producers.

Originally posted by Sistermadly
And am I wrong for wanting to see "Platinum"? I thought it might be interesting to check out the first hip-hop mini-series...

You're not wrong for anything. Watch what you please. Platinum could turn out to be a worthwhile show. That remains to be seen. The only reason it came under my radar is because I happened to see the commercial for it about 3 minutes after I saw the commercial for Malibu's Most Wanted. But I bet you this.... most of those "fans of hip-hop" (read: young, white, suburban kids) that will run out in hordes to see Malibu's Most Wanted, won't give Platinum (assuming it's legit) the time of day. There's not enough buffoonery going on. Where were they when Brown Sugar was released? Oh yeah, there were no 40 ounces, fat gold chains and Air Force Ones, so why bother?

[Sahara]

I agree with you, Bamboozled. I've pretty much stopped listening to a lot of the hip hop that comes out today because it just doesn't compare to what I listened to growing up.
The sad thing I've experienced is, when someone who doesn't understand tries to reject another for not subscribing to the lastest and newest thing.
Like you said, the people who really eat this stuff up are suburban white kids who enjoy the capitalization of the urban culture. Now, music and movies are made to cater to these audiences. There's little to no authenticity in what's produced. It doesn't "say" anything.
I've been trying to listen to and learn more about jazz, but even that is full of the comercialized "smooth jazz".

[Sistermadly]

Originally posted by Bamboozled
What can I expect? I can expect the hip-hop tradition to remain one of pride and dignity, not the present day minstrel show that it has become. As a matter of fact, it's killing me to call what we're discussing hip-hop, because this is the antithesis of what hip-hop is. Now, don't get me wrong. I don't blame the media 100%. I also blame these shuckin' and jivin' rappers and the actors who genuflect before these bogus producers.

For the record, I agree with you. That's why whenever I get a chance to tell this "old head's" side of the story, I often do.

Oh, and where I live, it's not mostly white kids who are into hip hop -- it's Asian kids. I even saw a Korean dude with an afro the other day. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

[Blackwatch]

Originally posted by Bamboozled

......most of those "fans of hip-hop" (read: young, white, suburban kids) that will run out in hordes to see Malibu's Most Wanted, won't give Platinum (assuming it's legit) the time of day. There's not enough buffoonery going on. Where were they when Brown Sugar was released? Oh yeah, there were no 40 ounces, fat gold chains and Air Force Ones, so why bother?

You hit the nail right on the head, and this is why I object to the "mainstreamness" of hip-hop or rap if you will. Because the mainstream always seeks to decontextualize the portions of black culture it appropriates. When sistermadly states that most of the white hip-hop fans are born in the 80's and have made Eminiem the most popular rapper in the planet, she doesn't understand that Eminem does not represent the purest form of the art, the voice of oppressed people who were once voiceless. The content of the rap music that sells today is as mainstream as it gets, from the crass materialism, to the minstrelsy; you see nothing countercultural or revolutionary in the pop rap that sells in droves to these white kids. Now, the litmus becomes how many of these white kids will buy Dead Prez's new album, I'm sure some will, but 10 mil like 50 cent and Eminem? I doubt it very seriously.


A few years back I hosted a forum on campus during black history month about minstrelsy and hip-hop in which several white students came to try to understand "why we can't like Tupac?" (as one student asked me). During the forum I discussed the history and social role that minstrelsy has had in this country. Minstrelsy has always represented to mainstream America the idea that no matter what social-economic standing that a white person may have, at least they do not have blackness-the anathema of any white supremacist culture. To portray blacks as hedonistic, hypersexed, undisciplined, materialistic, and just down right sub human (culturally) it affirms their position in this society as abject- a constant reminder to those in the mainstream of what can happen if you adapt these virtues (these values were never actually the values of blacks at the time, they were simply ascribed to blacks in an effort to get people not to have those values, since they already equated black people as being subhuman. This aided in the normalizing of the Protestant work ethic and aided in the hegemony of both Capitalism and White Supremacy in this country). It also (in the minds of whites) justifies the position of blacks in this society and essentializes the black identity as that of perpetually disadvantaged and helps to negate the possibility of or need for social change. The reason why whites have enjoyed the cultural artifacts of black people throughout the years is because they have been able to take it out of its context, redefine it, and then sell it back to America as something completely different, useless in the struggle for liberation. After I explained this, a white student says "I didn't know it was that deep, I just like the music," again affirming my point that whites don't appreciate black art in the context in which it was intended.

Some may think that I am blowing this way out of context, but In the 90's, this minstrel stuff began to take on creepy aspects as whites not only wanted to see black abjection, but now they want to see black death. Record companies are marketing black death to the mainstream as the ultimate solution to this abject entity in American society, the "black" identity. Look At all of the titles of Biggie's Albums, the cover of "Maciavelie" and the whole media blitz about 50cent (everybody knows he's been shot 9 times).It wouldn't suprise me at all to start seeing more and more rappers die and a continual release of their albums "posthumously"
Blackwatch!!!!!!

[AKA_Monet]

Wait till the Universities start offering degree programs in "Urban Culture" with a mystifying Master's or Ph.D. on theses or disserations regarding "hip hop". It's as if it's the whole "Willie Lynch" papers all over again!!!

There was a time when some folks balked at me when I enjoyed my music genre. That's why I choose "Go Go" from D.C.--there is little imitation of that, yet... There was a time I would "my sayings", but now I see how it's cool to do that chit on movies, such as "Bringing Down The House"--which makes me wonder, what that the original name of the movie--or one that would make paying folks want to spend their money on it???

It will be a time when folks will say that people suffered under a racist regime whose ancestors were slaves have no culture--thus no validity for their trials... Maybe the "spin doctors" have found a way to emasculate our culture away from us... Maybe, this is the propaganda "they" need... And as the usual, we'll go hopping right along, then bitch and moan when chit go down as foul... Are we activists or reactivitist? Or are we just trying to deal?

[ClassyLady]

Originally posted by 33girl
along these lines, they've been playing an instrumental version of "Come on Ride the Train" as background on the Weather Channel. What is THAT about???!?!!

In Tallahassee, commercials for Entertainment Tonight play an instrumental of "Back that A$$ Up."

[librasoul22]

Originally posted by ClassyLady
In Tallahassee, commercials for Entertainment Tonight play an instrumental of "Back that A$$ Up."

So do the ones for the local news!!! LOL

[Steeltrap]

Originally posted by Sahara
I agree with you, Bamboozled. I've pretty much stopped listening to a lot of the hip hop that comes out today because it just doesn't compare to what I listened to growing up.
The sad thing I've experienced is, when someone who doesn't understand tries to reject another for not subscribing to the lastest and newest thing.
Like you said, the people who really eat this stuff up are suburban white kids who enjoy the capitalization of the urban culture. Now, music and movies are made to cater to these audiences. There's little to no authenticity in what's produced. It doesn't "say" anything.
I've been trying to listen to and learn more about jazz, but even that is full of the comercialized "smooth jazz".

If you're in New Jersey, tune into WBGO-FM 88 out of Newark, www.wbgo.org. You can listen online. They play no commercialized smooth jazz stuff. They play the good ol' stuff, such as Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Duke Ellington, Billie Holiday, Count Basie, etc. etc.
I came to jazz rather late in life. It was my late father's favorite music. Now, I have over 200 CDs which don't get a lot of play because I live in LoCal and can listen to www.kkjz.org, KKJZ-FM, in my car, in my house.
The sad thing is that many of us aren't as into real jazz as we should be. But that probably dates back to the 1940s, when the Bebop movement took the music out of the popular, danceable realm.