What Do I Say?

[ChloeAlex]

This is just your basic "What do I say during rush?" thread with a personal twist on it. If what I'm about to ask you encroaches on sacred sorority territory, I am by no means asking you to break that trust.

I'll be rushing in the fall and I've been talking with one of my girlfriends who is already in Greek Life there--she's been helping me through all the steps. The other day we got on the topic of what houses I had a pre-rush interests in and the conversation took a turn to what I should hold off on saying: such as the fact that I'm not Christian.

I'm rushing in Georgia, smack-dab in the middle of the Bible Belt. I have no problem with what anyone believes--that's their business--but my friend is worried that some of the girls may have a problem with me not being Christian. My friend said that every week her sorority is required to go to a local mass service. She said not to say anything about my beliefs until after rush.

I see that she's just trying to help me, but now I'm worried. While I don't care what anyone else believes, I don't want to be forced to take part in a ceremony I don't believe in--mostly because I would feel like a fraud and I'd be afraid of offending someone.

What do I do? How can I know if I really fit with a sorority if I never know what their ceremonies are like? Help!

--

"Acting is a way of living out one's insanity."

[carnation]

I do not believe that any NPC sorority would require their members to go to "mass" and I'm in Georgia too.

I have seen copies of the initiation rituals of most of the NPC sororities; many GreekChatters have. Most of the rituals, except for the Jewish-founded ones, do contain a fair amount of Christian symbolism. You have to decide how you will deal with that. Only please do not decide to be "the change" and rip up your national by trying to ram a change down their throats. This happened to my national in the seventies and it was devastating.

If you can't deal with Christian and Jewish symbolism in rituals, please don't join.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

I am a non-Christian woman who is in one of the oldest groups, and the Christian symbolism doesn't really bother me for two reasons:

1) It's more like, we draw inspiration from an old testament story here and there than like, reciting scripture. I think the bible is a very nice book of stories, many with good messages.

2) It's really not offending anyone to take part in the ritual without believing in the Christian God. The meaning of ritual is not the literal words, it's the way it connects you to the other members, past and present, who have done the same thing.

Now, I don't think you should conceal, during rush, that you are not Christian, as you are better off being released by a sorority that doesn't want non-Christian women than joining and being made to feel an outcast. But the types of chapters that will welcome non-Christian women into their pledge class are not going to mind if you don't believe in a literal interpretation of the bible during ritual.

(Side note: you can look to see which groups have open creeds and the like to get an idea of how Christian symbolism is used. For example, my creed uses "God" a few times, and I just picture the Flying Spaghetti Monster when I say it.)

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I am a non-Christian woman who is in one of the oldest groups, and the Christian symbolism doesn't really bother me for two reasons:

1) It's more like, we draw inspiration from an old testament story here and there than like, reciting scripture. I think the bible is a very nice book of stories, many with good messages.

2) It's really not offending anyone to take part in the ritual without believing in the Christian God. The meaning of ritual is not the literal words, it's the way it connects you to the other members, past and present, who have done the same thing.

Now, I don't think you should conceal, during rush, that you are not Christian, as you are better off being released by a sorority that doesn't want non-Christian women than joining and being made to feel an outcast. But the types of chapters that will welcome non-Christian women into their pledge class are not going to mind if you don't believe in a literal interpretation of the bible during ritual.

(Side note: you can look to see which groups have open creeds and the like to get an idea of how Christian symbolism is used. For example, my creed uses "God" a few times, and I just picture the Flying Spaghetti Monster when I say it.)

All of this. I appreciate the history of our ritual; the thought that thousands of sisters before me, going back over 100 years, have said these words and gone through these ceremonies. And thousands of sisters after me will do the same. It's the bond the ritual creates that's important. With every fraternity and sorority, the overall message of the words and traditions in the ritual is a positive one, and anyone can live by them, regardless of what religion they practice (or don't practice).

[DubaiSis]

Based on the age of most of the NPC sororities, it should be no surprise that there is a religious element to their rituals. As far as getting through that, standing quietly while not reciting the part in question seems to be an acceptable response.

As far as how to address the issue, religion falls in with money, men and politics - it's not good rush conversation. I certainly wouldn't lie and I wouldn't even side-step the issue if it comes up, but I wouldn't invite the conversation. Even among Christians in the most commonly accepted American terms there would be HUGE disagreement on what that means. So you're a Christian. Are you Christian ENOUGH? I was raised Catholic and even while I was a believer that wasn't Christian ENOUGH for some of my friends. I was astounded to learn that Catholics aren't Christians. But that's a discussion for another day. In short, don't talk about religion during rush. If it comes up, express your opinion and gently try to change the conversation. If you make a rush crush and it's an issue that is really grating on you, then you should address it before rush is over. And feel free to not pledge any chapters that require a weekly attendance at any religious service. That is almost certainly not a part of the national sorority policy. But like Carnation said, it's not for you to change their traditions if it's working for them.

[angels&angles]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

As far as getting through [the religious element in ritual], standing quietly while not reciting the part in question seems to be an acceptable response.

Non-Christian here, and that's what I did. There were a few call-and-response things that I just stood quietly during. I'm not sure if anyone even noticed.

Now, if there's a chapter who is requiring members to go to church, that's another thing altogether, but I suspect the active members of a chapter who does that will be asking leading questions to determine if you are a good fit for them. As someone else said, don't lie or sidestep the question, but don't bring it up either.

[MysticCat]

Sorry for the lane-swerve, but these four threads might be of interest:

Religion?

Atheists as members?

Joining an organization and not being religious and here:

Christianity in ritual.

And I do have a hard time imagining a chapter in the South that requires all members to go to Mass. Expecting all members to go the services at, say, the nearby Baptist church, maybe, but a whole chapter of Catholics?

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by angels&angles

As someone else said, don't lie or sidestep the question, but don't bring it up either.

It's okay to bring it up in an oblique way, though. For example, if someone asks what you did last summer, and you were a counselor at the JCC day camp, or you went to Israel with your family, etc., you can say that and see if they react in a negative way.

(I'm giving Jewish examples because those are easy for me to come up with off of the top of my head. Obviously, insert your own religion here. If you are an atheist, that's probably the hardest to casually drop into conversation.)

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

And I do have a hard time imagining a chapter in the South that requires all members to go to Mass. Expecting all members to go the services at, say, the nearby Baptist church, maybe, but a whole chapter of Catholics?

I agree with this, and I wonder if the OP is using mass in place of worship due to her unfamiliarity with Christianity? (Perhaps she is unaware that this is typically used in reference to Catholicism.)

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by amIblue?

I agree with this, and I wonder if the OP is using mass in place of worship due to her unfamiliarity with Christianity? (Perhaps she is unaware that this is typically used in reference to Catholicism.)

Quite possible, and if so, my bad.

[adpiucf]

No one will require you to go to religious services or change your beliefs. You will get a sense of each chapter during recruitment, and whether or not you feel comfortable. If you join a sorority, you will be prepared prior to any sorority rituals about what to expect, and you can address any concerns with your new member coordinator. I assure you that many many women from all walks of life have joined sororities and have not been made to feel uncomfortable because their beliefs differed from the 100+ year old founders' beliefs! Any "religious" connotations in the rituals are historical in basis and it is the values (which are basic values of being a good person and helpful to others) that come out of that background which are the true takeaway. You wouldn't feel obligated to start worshiping Zeus and Poseidon, so don't worry about Jesus.

Any chapter that offers a "mass" or other religious worship or bible study is doing so for benefit of interested sisters and absolutely cannot require all of its members to attend -- your friend is confused or may feel pressured because a lot of girls participate.

[Titchou]

It was very common at one time in the south for chapters to have "chapter church" where the chapter would attend a particular service as a group. It was not required but most everyone went. It normally fell on weekends when something else ws going on - like a chapter anniversary, reunions, etc. Very few groups do this any more.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Titchou

It was very common at one time in the south for chapters to have "chapter church" where the chapter would attend a particular service as a group. It was not required but most everyone went. It normally fell on weekends when something else ws going on - like a chapter anniversary, reunions, etc. Very few groups do this any more.

We did this once a month and it was required. It rotated to different churches around town of different denominations. Even our two buddhist members went. This, of course, was back woods Louisiana, the home town of Duck Dynasty, so it's not surprising. I don't know if the chapter does this anymore, but I wouldn't be surprised in the least. Even required events aren't attended by 100% of the chapter, so I think this doesn't have to be a deal breaker.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

We did this once a month and it was required. It rotated to different churches around town of different denominations. Even our two buddhist members went. This, of course, was back woods Louisiana, the home town of Duck Dynasty, so it's not surprising. I don't know if the chapter does this anymore, but I wouldn't be surprised in the least. Even required events aren't attended by 100% of the chapter, so I think this doesn't have to be a deal breaker.

Sure, but the OP has every right to feel uncomfortable in a chapter that does this.

[Griffins&Quills]

I don't think that it should be too much of a concern for you. Even in Georgia, unless you are attending a specific religious school (i.e. a catholic university) which I'm guessing you don't, it is really a non-issue.

As DubaiSis said, it is also not good rush conversation. There are certain topics active members are encouraged to stay away from, and religion is almost always one. It's unlikely that it will come up in conversation, and on the off chance it does, just politely word your answer and move on to another topic.

As for required mass, 1) "required" is thrown around a lot in sororities, but as AOII Angel said, not 100% of the chapter attends and 2) it is possible that your friend is in a christian sorority (such as Alpha Delta Chi or Sigma Alpha Omega, the two most common christian sororities in GA I believe) in which case, I can see the required mass, otherwise, I can't see that being enforced in a traditional NPC sorority

And, as other posters have mentioned, there are religious and often christian elements in rituals, but they tend to be small parts, perhaps a bible passage relating. Just listen quietly and move on. My chapter did have a prayer request book we passed around during chapter but you could also put quotes in there, and bible study was an option for those who desired it, but it certainly was not forced upon us.

TLDR: I don't think it will be an issue for you, even in GA. It shouldn't come up during rush, NPC sororities don't generally require you to be a certain faith and don't force their beliefs on you.