Why I Think Explanations Should Be GIven for Deleted Threads

[MysticCat]

Well, as I understand it, KillarneyRose asked in my other thread something along these lines:

KillarneyRose: (to MysticCat) Not trying to be snarky but why do you think moderators owe an explanation? The Wall of Shame thread being delete was a hint that such a thread will not be tolerated. I really want to hear your opinion as an older GCer.

Since that thread got deleted before I had a chance to see the question and answer, here is why I think the mods owe an explanation.

The mod needs to be able to explain why such a thread will not be tolerated. "Hints" don't cut it. How did the Shame thread violate the rules of this forum? Deletions without explanations suggest that the rules are whatever a mod wants to them to be. Perhaps it's the lawyer in me, but we would say that appears to arbitrary and capricious. If a mod can't articulate why a post or thread violates the rules of this forum, then the post or thread shouldn't be deleted, and GCers have no basis for guaging what is or isn't allowed in the future. (And FWIW, I would always vote for the threads being locked over threads being deleted.)

As others have said, sometimes it's abundantly clear why a post or thread is deleted. But it wasn't at all clear in the Shame thread. As far as I could tell, the only thing happening there was questioning the actions of some mods. The only hint I got from the deletion of that thread was "Questioning the mods will not be tolerated." I can't find that in the rules of this forum anywhere.

As I said, other forums I participate in not only have the mods provide explanations but warnings as well -- "X violates the rules of this forum. If you continue to do x, action will be taken." I think that's a good thing, both for purposes of clarity of what is and isn't tolerated and for the purposes of encouraging even-handed application of the rules. And it's in the best interests of the mods -- it helps avoids even the appearance of arbitrariness.

The way it's been going here the lately makes it appear that some mods are making it up as they go along and are making decisions based not on actual violations of the forum rules but on on a more personal, "I don't like what you said" basis. Note carefully: I said "appear." I'm not saying mods are doing that; I'm saying that's what it can look like to the rest of us.

Simply put, it comes across less as moderating and more as power-tripping. In my opinion, the mods do themselves no favors by not giving explanations.

[pshsx1]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

As* I said, other forums I participate in not only have the mods provide explanations but warnings as well -- "X violated the rules of this forum. If you continue to do x, action will be taken." I think that's a good thing, both for purposes of clarity of what is and isn't tolerated and for the purposes of encouraging even-handed application of the rules. And it's in the best interests of the mods -- it helps avoids even the appearance of arbitrariness.

That's a great idea! I agree.

*fixed

[Senusret I]

Amen.

*praying this thread won't also be deleted*

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

The way it's been going here the lately makes it appear that some mods are making it up as they go along and are making decisions based not on actual violations of the forum rules but on on a more personal, "I don't like what you said" basis. Note carefully: I said "appear." I'm not saying mods are doing that; I'm saying that's what it can look like to the rest of us.

Simply put, it comes across less as moderating and more as power-tripping. In my opinion, the mods do themselves no favors by not giving explanations.

Very diplomatically put, MC.

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Amen.

*praying this thread won't also be deleted*

I hope the same, but assume this thread will face the same fate as the previous threads which questioned the actions of a mod.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

KillarneyRose said that if you all cannot get with the program (whatever program some of the moderators have created) you should post elsewhere.

Likewise, I think that if the mods can't get with the program (and I think the program GCers are looking for involves transparency and also fair and consistent moderating), perhaps those mods should mod elsewhere. But that's just my opinion, which I assume will be deleted.

[AZTheta]

I'm disappointed in the GC moderators' recent actions.

Having recently been "excommunicated" for disagreeing with someone in a "position of power", I can attest to the fact that it comes roaring back in a very negative fashion on the person(s) who "punishes" another for not "toeing the party line" (or for whatever reason). It really does. And it's not pretty.

It is a simple matter to speak directly to the offending poster, publicly or privately. It is also a matter of respect. And when someone says something that you don't "like", there are many ways to respond. My personal favorite: rise above it.

One final comment: I live my life by Andrew Jackson's quote: sometimes one man with courage is a majority. It's been the motivating factor in my life. We all make mistakes. It's how we handle those mistakes when others make them that defines our characters. Forgiveness works wonders. So does lovingkindness.

This entire firestorm is unnecessary. And it's not going away any time soon; we are not sheeple. GC moderators, you can do better. Please do.

[Kevin]

Mods should be in the business of basically calling balls and strikes. I tend to split/lock threads which have strayed from the original topic. The only thing I delete is spam or petty squabbles which have turned personal.

I do think it's fair to question these seemingly random thread deletions. I do think an explanation is probably owed as moderators should be trying to achieve an understanding between the non-mods as to where the line is. Arbitrariness and aloofness (I'm not necessarily accusing anyone of that) does not achieve that end.

[Gusteau]

Originally Posted by AzTheta

One final comment: I live my life by Andrew Jackson's quote: sometimes one man with courage is a majority. It's been the motivating factor in my life. We all make mistakes. It's how we handle those mistakes when others make them that defines our characters. Forgiveness works wonders. So does lovingkindness.

That's an awesome quote - I've never heard it before! Thanks for sharing it.

I've been a very infrequent poster as of late (waves!) so I will not comment much. I'll only wonder aloud if this is the "shot heard around the world" at Lexington, or the harshly quashed Whiskey Rebellion.

[Jen]

I agree with everything stated here.

If you're doing a good and fair job moderating, then being transparent with your actions shouldn't be threatening.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Mods should be in the business of basically calling balls and strikes. I tend to split/lock threads which have strayed from the original topic. The only thing I delete is spam or petty squabbles which have turned personal.

I do think it's fair to question these seemingly random thread deletions. I do think an explanation is probably owed as moderators should be trying to achieve an understanding between the non-mods as to where the line is. Arbitrariness and aloofness (I'm not necessarily accusing anyone of that) does not achieve that end.

And it seems to me that when you do "pruning" in the Risk Management forum, you do usually post a quick post explaining why.
Thanks for that!

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Man, I wish people posted in my forum so I could do moderator-y things.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Man, I wish people posted in my forum so I could do moderator-y things.

I know, right? All I do is delete spam and police the occasional dumb thread about "I just terminated, can I wear letters still?" or "Tri Sigma cut me and they're all bitches."

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I do think it's fair to question these seemingly random thread deletions. I do think an explanation is probably owed as moderators should be trying to achieve an understanding between the non-mods as to where the line is. Arbitrariness and aloofness (I'm not necessarily accusing anyone of that) does not achieve that end.

What's your opinion of the likelihood that we'll receive such an explanation, Kevin?

I think we'll never know. Well, actually, I think we already know. It'd just be nice for the mod to acknowledge that she took things personally and retaliated via the power associated with her responsibilities. Her silence on the matter speaks louder than any BS answer she'd provide, anyway.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

I know, right? All I do is delete spam and police the occasional dumb thread about "I just terminated, can I wear letters still?" or "Tri Sigma cut me and they're all bitches."

I'll post something offensive in your forum if you do in mine, deal?

[agzg]

Considering other moms don't have the privilege of closing threads that get slightly derailed, it does seem pretty unfair. Unless we're now deciding to take the kid glove approach to moms of PNMs here and close/move/delete all their threads in which they stick their foots in their mouths, as well.

Which, whatever. There are other forums to read on GC.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by SydneyK

What's your opinion of the likelihood that we'll receive such an explanation, Kevin?

With each moderator and the situation, the phrase YMMV applies.

I think we'll never know. Well, actually, I think we already know. It'd just be nice for the mod to acknowledge that she took things personally and retaliated via the power associated with her responsibilities. Her silence on the matter speaks louder than any BS answer she'd provide, anyway.

Moderators also have the power to undelete things. We can even see the threads and posts users type, think better of saying, then delete.

That's one reason I'm happy to moderate all of the places I moderate alone--no one (but the supermods) there to second-guess my decisions.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying anything was done inappropriately on KR's part. Moderating a 'General Chat Topic' forum is probably a lot different from modding Sigma Nu and RM. Lots more playground monitor type business over here.