Afghanistan: Urinating Marines

[DrPhil]

Two of the marines in question have been identified as of this afternoon.

Originally Posted by CBS News

An official says the Marine Corps has identified at least two of the four Marines in an internet video that purports to depict them urinating on Taliban corpses in Afghanistan.


A Marine official said Thursday that the four were members of the 3rd Battalion, 2nd Marines, which returned to its home base in North Carolina last fall after a tour in Afghanistan. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because a criminal investigation is under way.


The official said that at least some of the four Marines are no longer in that battalion. He provided no other details.


Defense Secretary Leon Panetta on Thursday condemned as "utterly deplorable" the actions in the video. He said such behavior is "entirely inappropriate for members of the United States military" and those responsible will be held accountable.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...n-video-probe/

[knight_shadow]

I read about this on T_witter earlier but didn't know that this was something that had happened recently.

The entertainer that posted it said "We sent troops over to kill them, but now we're getting mad that they're pissing on them?"

[sdtennisgal]

This is just reprehensible. This is along the lines of what went on at Abu Grab in Iraq. When our troops do things like this it can be used as propaganda against our involvement in Afghanistan, and is definitely something that can turn the opinions of non-combatants against us. It infuriates me that these Marines would do this after all of the briefings they receive about Law of War/Standards of Conduct.

I know somebody will post that these guys are under a lot of pressure/stress, but so is everyone else in a combat theater. Though there is no way to ever know, but it is likely this video will go to help recruit new volunteers against the Coalition forces there in Afghanistan (and possibly our growing forces in AFRICOM on the Horn of Africa).

[Benzgirl]

I saw it on the news this morning. Awful. Absolutely, awful.

[IrishLake]

I guess it make me callous, or insensitive, or something. But I don't care, because I don't understand or grasp what the men fighting for us go through on a daily basis over there. What I do know is the Taliban want our soldiers more than just dead and pissed on.

They were dumb enough to video it though, so now they have to suffer the consequences.

[Xidelt]

It's war. The Taliban is the enemy. Get over it. If you want political correctness, sensitivity, and kittens crapping rainbows, try the Disney channel or Chuck E Cheese.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by Xidelt

It's war. The Taliban is the enemy. Get over it. If you want political correctness, sensitivity, and kittens crapping rainbows, try the Disney channel or Chuck E Cheese.

Yes, lets desecrate bodies, then scream when they do the same to our dead.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by Xidelt

It's war. The Taliban is the enemy. Get over it. If you want political correctness, sensitivity, and kittens crapping rainbows, try the Disney channel or Chuck E Cheese.

I KNOW RIGHT! ALL'S FAIR IN LOVE, WAR AND WEARING TAP-OUT SHIRTS BRAH.

"The enemy" is actually an intellectual phenomenon leading to terrorism/extremism, which gets fuel from dumb shit like "pissing on dead bodies." You don't have to be a "pussy" (or whatever you're implying) to understand that the war effort is actively set back by doing things like this.

Also, stuff about "higher standards" and "founding values" and all that, but you can fill those in on your own.

[sdtennisgal]

Originally Posted by Xidelt

It's war. The Taliban is the enemy. Get over it. If you want political correctness, sensitivity, and kittens crapping rainbows, try the Disney channel or Chuck E Cheese.

I have to respectfully disagree. I can speak with a little personal perspective, as I have deployed twice since 9/11 as a Reserve Officer (though both deployments were to Iraq, not Afghanistan). I have seen that the locals over there are not supportive of our actions in the first place, and things like this will only make it worse (including the possibility of making it more dangerous for our other personnel in the combat zone due to reprisals).

This is not about "political correctness." Every Marine, Soldier, Sailor and Airman that deploys is given thorough training in the coverage of the Geneva Convention. That includes a prohibition against defiling dead bodies (even the bodies of enemy combatants). We are also subject to prosecution under the Uniform Code of Military Justice if we violate the Geneva Convention Protocols.

It is particularly frustrating that the Taliban can violate the Geneva Convention at will (as they have). However, if you look at the history of modern warfare, you will see how atrocities tend to escalate and perpetuate increased violence (example: the former Yugoslave Republics). The Taliban could every well use this to recruit new members, motivate their current members, or incite violence against the coalition forces by showing how the U.S. is committing atrocities. (The true irony is that the Taliban would ideally prevent people from watching television in the first place).

There is also the issue of unit discipline. Once discipline starts to break down in a unit, things can go to hell quickly. Enough said there.

I do respect your opinion (particularly if you have a loved one or friend over there), as it is frustrating to know about the sacrifices our troops have made and the things the Taliban (and their supporters) have gotten away with. However, we HAVE to be held to a higher standard.

I would be interested to hear from other posters who have also been deployed on this issue.

[als463]

Originally Posted by sdtennisgal

I have to respectfully disagree. I can speak with a little personal perspective, as I have deployed twice since 9/11 as a Reserve Officer (though both deployments were to Iraq, not Afghanistan). I have seen that the locals over there are not supportive of our actions in the first place, and things like this will only make it worse (including the possibility of making it more dangerous for our other personnel in the combat zone due to reprisals).

This is not about "political correctness." Every Marine, Soldier, Sailor and Airman that deploys is given thorough training in the coverage of the Geneva Convention. That includes a prohibition against defiling dead bodies (even the bodies of enemy combatants). We are also subject to prosecution under the Uniform Code of Military Justice if we violate the Geneva Convention Protocols.

It is particularly frustrating that the Taliban can violate the Geneva Convention at will (as they have). However, if you look at the history of modern warfare, you will see how atrocities tend to escalate and perpetuate increased violence (example: the former Yugoslave Republics). The Taliban could every well use this to recruit new members, motivate their current members, or incite violence against the coalition forces by showing how the U.S. is committing atrocities. (The true irony is that the Taliban would ideally prevent people from watching television in the first place).

There is also the issue of unit discipline. Once discipline starts to break down in a unit, things can go to hell quickly. Enough said there.

I do respect your opinion (particularly if you have a loved one or friend over there), as it is frustrating to know about the sacrifices our troops have made and the things the Taliban (and their supporters) have gotten away with. However, we HAVE to be held to a higher standard.

I would be interested to hear from other posters who have also been deployed on this issue.

sdtennisgal,
As an Iraq War Veteran, I want to take the time to thank you for your service. I didn't know you were deployed or even in the military. So, thank you.

[Xidelt]

Ksig, I don't need your condescending asshole attitude. I never said anyone was a pussy or that I condoned the behavior. Any assumptions you make are completely on you. I also have a pretty good grasp of basic US history and government, thanks.

My problem is that I think there are more incidents like this than people realize in the military. They are dealt with, consequences are given, and people move on, part of what makes me so angry is the constant press coverage and the fake outrage and lip service from all the bureaucrats. Investigate, deal with it, and move on.

My brother did a long tour in Afghanistan. It's a shitty conflict. But ksig, if you saw what my brother did, you'd realize the Taliban was the enemy. Save your lectures for somebody who cares.

[KillarneyRose]

Originally Posted by sdtennisgal

I have to respectfully disagree. I can speak with a little personal perspective, as I have deployed twice since 9/11 as a Reserve Officer (though both deployments were to Iraq, not Afghanistan). I have seen that the locals over there are not supportive of our actions in the first place, and things like this will only make it worse (including the possibility of making it more dangerous for our other personnel in the combat zone due to reprisals).

This is not about "political correctness." Every Marine, Soldier, Sailor and Airman that deploys is given thorough training in the coverage of the Geneva Convention. That includes a prohibition against defiling dead bodies (even the bodies of enemy combatants). We are also subject to prosecution under the Uniform Code of Military Justice if we violate the Geneva Convention Protocols.

It is particularly frustrating that the Taliban can violate the Geneva Convention at will (as they have). However, if you look at the history of modern warfare, you will see how atrocities tend to escalate and perpetuate increased violence (example: the former Yugoslave Republics). The Taliban could every well use this to recruit new members, motivate their current members, or incite violence against the coalition forces by showing how the U.S. is committing atrocities. (The true irony is that the Taliban would ideally prevent people from watching television in the first place).

There is also the issue of unit discipline. Once discipline starts to break down in a unit, things can go to hell quickly. Enough said there.

I do respect your opinion (particularly if you have a loved one or friend over there), as it is frustrating to know about the sacrifices our troops have made and the things the Taliban (and their supporters) have gotten away with. However, we HAVE to be held to a higher standard.

I would be interested to hear from other posters who have also been deployed on this issue.

Thank you for this post, sdtennisgirl. Very well written and it makes a lot of sense.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by Xidelt

Ksig, I don't need your condescending asshole attitude. I never said anyone was a pussy or that I condoned the behavior. Any assumptions you make are completely on you. I also have a pretty good grasp of basic US history and government, thanks.

I'm certain "Disney" and "rainbows" weren't any assertions of anything, huh? Also, if you weren't condoning their actions, then I jumped the gun - but "get over it" and similar certainly sound like you don't feel the soldiers are in the wrong. Am I wrong there?

My problem is that I think there are more incidents like this than people realize in the military. They are dealt with, consequences are given, and people move on, part of what makes me so angry is the constant press coverage and the fake outrage and lip service from all the bureaucrats. Investigate, deal with it, and move on.

I agree with you here, in a general sense, but it doesn't absolve these particular soldiers for being douches. It's paradoxical, but soldiers are still responsible for their actions when they become public knowledge - whether or not those things "should" be in the public purview.

My brother did a long tour in Afghanistan. It's a shitty conflict. But ksig, if you saw what my brother did, you'd realize the Taliban was the enemy. Save your lectures for somebody who cares.

I congratulate your brother for his service, and I get that insane things happen every day ... Pissing on dead bodies is still silly.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by sdtennisgal

I have to respectfully disagree. I can speak with a little personal perspective, as I have deployed twice since 9/11 as a Reserve Officer (though both deployments were to Iraq, not Afghanistan). I have seen that the locals over there are not supportive of our actions in the first place, and things like this will only make it worse (including the possibility of making it more dangerous for our other personnel in the combat zone due to reprisals).

This is not about "political correctness." Every Marine, Soldier, Sailor and Airman that deploys is given thorough training in the coverage of the Geneva Convention. That includes a prohibition against defiling dead bodies (even the bodies of enemy combatants). We are also subject to prosecution under the Uniform Code of Military Justice if we violate the Geneva Convention Protocols.

It is particularly frustrating that the Taliban can violate the Geneva Convention at will (as they have). However, if you look at the history of modern warfare, you will see how atrocities tend to escalate and perpetuate increased violence (example: the former Yugoslave Republics). The Taliban could every well use this to recruit new members, motivate their current members, or incite violence against the coalition forces by showing how the U.S. is committing atrocities. (The true irony is that the Taliban would ideally prevent people from watching television in the first place).

There is also the issue of unit discipline. Once discipline starts to break down in a unit, things can go to hell quickly. Enough said there.

I do respect your opinion (particularly if you have a loved one or friend over there), as it is frustrating to know about the sacrifices our troops have made and the things the Taliban (and their supporters) have gotten away with. However, we HAVE to be held to a higher standard.

I would be interested to hear from other posters who have also been deployed on this issue.

Also, this. Amazing post.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Xidelt

It's war. The Taliban is the enemy. Get over it. If you want political correctness, sensitivity, and kittens crapping rainbows, try the Disney channel or Chuck E Cheese.

And we all know that urinating on bodies is a necessary part of war.

Never become that which you claim to be above.