1st amendment rights & teachers

[ASUADPi]

My mom and I got into an arguement over this and I wanted to "hear" what others thought.

I coach cheer at the high school I work at. I have been receiving emails from the booster club president. One of the emails sparked an opinion. I carefully worded my thoughts and basically was saying that there should be a consistency on "goodie bags" between the squads (i.e. that one squad shouldn't receive 30 dollars worth of stuff (each girl) while the others receive 5 bucks (each girl)). That we are all a team, etc...

Well I called my mom to read it to her and she immediately went on the defensive and was like "you shouldn't send it, you could get in trouble, etc..". To me, it would be a long stretch for an administrator to reprimand or fire a teacher for using their personal email account, at home, on their personal computer, on a Sunday evening. Now, if they were at school, using a school computer, during the working day, that would be a seperate issue entirely.

My mom went off on me, saying "it doesn't matter". I then told her I would be quite afraid if she were my administrator was was trying to fire me for using my personal email, on my personal computer, at home. And she was like "I would have a very serious talking with you and reprimand you". (But then she changed her story to that she wouldn't say that). We eventually hung up on each other

So my question really is, what are your guys thoughts. Do you feel that teachers emails typed at home on their personal computer are protected? Do you feel that emails typed at school, on a personal email account protected? Do you feel at administrator would have the authority to reprimand or fire a teacher for typing an email from their personal computer (at home)?

I'd really like to know what other people think about this.

I feel that society has way to many expectations for teachers in the first place, but to put us on this pedastal that we are "perfect" is unattainable. I'm not perfect, I make mistakes. I also feel that I'm still a citizen and I'm still afforded the same rights and freedoms as everyone else, but it seems like because I'm a teacher some of those "unalienable rights" are diminished or taken away from me because I'm supposed to be the "moral center".

Thoughts?

[SWTXBelle]

What is it that your mother believes is objectionable? I can't see a problem with asking for consistency - in fact, I'd think you'd be more likely to get in trouble for NOT asking them to treat all members equally.

As to the other argument - I don't get it. As a teacher, you send notes, e-mails, make phone calls - and will have discussions with parents and other staff members. You are not a robot - of course you have your own take on things. As long as you are not in violation of any school policy, you shouldn't have a problem. Does the school give you an e-mail account? If so, use it for all school-related messaging. If not, I don't see how they could criticize you for using your own e-mail account anymore than they could get mad if you mailed a letter from your own mailbox.

Am I missing something?

[ASUADPi]

No that was it. My mom was saying that I shouldn't reply to the email I got about my freshmen cheerleaders because my comments could "get back" to work and I could get in trouble. I then argued that the school would have no right to reprimand me because I used my personal email account at home. She argued that "you are still representing the school and you are still a teacher". I was like "are you kidding me". I may be a teacher but I'm still allowed to be a person and have the same rights as everyone else.

The thing was all I wanted to stress was the consistency. Unfortunately we live in a very materialistic society, but when my freshmen cheerleaders see that the varsity girls are getting like 30 bucks worth of really nice stuff in their goodie bags and they got tissues and a small can of hair spray, there is something wrong there. I understand that varsity is "varsity", but there is already division amongst the squads (which is understandable) and girls get easily jealous (especially at their ages). That is all I wanted to stress in my email that we should treat the squads the same when it came to goodie bags. I just feel that guidelines should be imposed, since the parents do purchase the items, of what can and cannot be bought as to make it consistent.

In reality it was a stupid arguement but I find it kind of offensive that my own mother was basically saying "well as an adminstrator" (we are both in the ed. leadership program). That is where our disagreement took off.

[Kevin]

Unless your administration has said otherwise, what is the issue here? My wife's a teacher and her kids IM her, contact her on Myspace/Facebook, etc. I actually think that this sort of out-of-school communication is better than oral communication because there's automatically a record of everything which was said.

The only way I think this is bad joojoo is if your administration has mandated that you may only contact kids in certain ways.

[Senusret I]

Are you in the union?

(Sounds silly, but it has a bearing on my opinion)

[ree-Xi]

I think that maybe you just shouldn't share details about work-related stuff with your mom, especially if she isn't in the same field.

For example, when I was a project manager in the Product Development department at a big dot-com, we sometimes made decisions on the fly and then went to higher ups for "approval". That is something that my mom, having never worked in the corporate world nor in a fast-paced industry, would never have understood. Had I tried to explain it to her, she probably would not agree with such a decision, and likely would have suggested that I could be fired for it.

You may have a close relationship with your mother, but maybe you should hold back when it comes to blow-by-blow accounts of things that happen at work. Were you looking for approval when you read the email to her? Do you usually pass things by your mom before making decisions? I cannot think of any reasons to share such stuff unlesss you are looking for feedback, which she gave you.

That's just my opinion. I would have more faith in your work decisions and actions and stick by them.

[Educatingblue]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Unless your administration has said otherwise, what is the issue here? My wife's a teacher and her kids IM her, contact her on Myspace/Facebook, etc. I actually think that this sort of out-of-school communication is better than oral communication because there's automatically a record of everything which was said.

I agree that this is a great way to stay connected to the students on "their" level, but with all of the inappropriate teacher/student situations in the news lately, I am very cautious with how I deal with my students. It only takes one time for "John" to get mad about something in class and tell his parents his teacher has been socializing with him outside of school etc.

[ASUADPi]

What's the kicker is that I was communicating with other adults about the cheer program. Not even with students.

ree-XI: my mom is a frickin teacher too. I think my mom, from the admin courses we are taking, has gone to one extreme where I would be an admin who finds a balance (but I'm not even sure I want to go into admin.)

[BetteDavisEyes]

I'm a teacher as well but the "policing" of teachers is getting ridiculous. From my personal computer, I do whatever the hell I want and it's no one's business what I send and to whom. My teaching partner & I communicate frequently using our personal emails & computers instead of our work emails.

At my old school, we were told that our work computers are monitored frequently. I was then told that I shouldn't be scouring ebay while at work. This was stupid because no one bothered to notice that I was on vacation during this incident so whomever was using my classroom used my classroom computers for ebay shopping but I got the blame.

[ASUADPi]

Originally Posted by BetteDavisEyes

I'm a teacher as well but the "policing" of teachers is getting ridiculous. From my personal computer, I do whatever the hell I want and it's no one's business what I send and to whom. My teaching partner & I communicate frequently using our personal emails & computers instead of our work emails.

At my old school, we were told that our work computers are monitored frequently. I was then told that I shouldn't be scouring ebay while at work. This was stupid because no one bothered to notice that I was on vacation during this incident so whomever was using my classroom used my classroom computers for ebay shopping but I got the blame.

You are so right (with regards to policing of teachers). What about all the other people in the world who are supposed to be "moral"? Don't see society giving them much crap, but yet teachers are expected to be these perfect little creatures and the moment one acts human "bam" its a huge deal. It's really dumb.

My work too monitors our emails and considering I essentially lost my last job because of district email (I was emailing my mom who works in district, she's tenured, I wasn't, so I was forced to resign), so I am pretty more anal about emails. But to have someone tell me what I can and cannot do from my home email is pretty asinine.

My principal was actually my ed. law professor. I'm going to approach him with this topic tomorrow and talk to him as my professor and not as my principal.

As bad as this sounds I kind of what to "shove it in my mom's face" that administrators can't police home emails as she thinks she can (when she becomes an administrator). I love my mom and I don't want her to turn into a heinous bitch of an administrator that I saw her becoming last night.

[UGAalum94]

I think that you can probably be held responsible for any message that you send as a representative of the school system, no matter where or how you send it.

So, since you were speaking as the cheer coach, IF there had been something objectionable about your email, I think you could probably be reprimanded for it. BUT I don't think there's anything wrong with expressing your opinion about goodie bags. As a matter of fact, I think the booster club should have solicited your opinion on this matter before they did anything, to tell you the truth. Things get dysfunctional really quickly on teams and squads for which booster clubs are acting in ways that the coaches don't request or want.

I think, as long as you were professional is what and how you said it, that you did the right thing and there should be no reprimand. Working with and directing the booster club probably actually falls directly within your professional duties in your role as a coach and that not responding to the email probably would have been a problem, unless you spoke to an administrator and they recommended not doing so (which is what we do with crazy people's email at my school).

That said, I don't think that you should be responsible to your district for anything you posted on GreekChat or that you posted just as yourself outside your professional duties.

But personally, I try to be really careful about having lines clearly drawn when I can. If I "friended" my students on facebook, then I'd be mindful that I was presenting myself to them through that medium. My only relationship with them is professional after all. Instead, I keep my profile set to private and can't be found in search, etc. I'll friend kids once they graduate (It amuses me to no end that they want to.), but I try to be careful about what I post on their walls that my current students might see.

Interestingly, our district has eased up a little about using the email system for non-professional purposes. The web we can only use for instructional and appropriate purposes, but the way the email policy reads, they seem to acknowledge that one might need to email a family member about an appropriate but personal matter and that would be acceptable. Basically, it seems to be the same standard that they'd have for the school phones. No one wants to fire you because you called your husband for two minutes at planning, assume the conversation itself wasn't criminal; similarly, you could email. ETA: I should note that they make very clear that nothing on the email system is private and particularly remind people that emails have been sought and used in court cases.

[AGDee]

I agree with UGAalum. If you are acting in an official capacity, that communication can be addressed by your employer no matter how it took place.. face to face, phone, home email or work email. However, if your opinions in the email were expressed in a professional manner, I don't see why it would be a problem anyway. Example "Why the hell does the varsity squad get so much and the freshman get nothing??" vs. "I have concerns about the inequity of the goodie bags among the squads"

[darling1]

i was thinking the same thing. i also agree with UGA. when i first read this i wasn't sure what was the issue. but as i was reading further, i get wanting to make sure that things are done fairly. however, because teachers are held to such high moral and ethical standards, what communications you send, how you send it, what you say, how you say it, and from what email account has a great impact on you as an educator.

the fact is even though you were at home on your computer, you were still conducting school business. depending on what you said and how it was relayed and how the person received it could impact you negatively. is it silly, perhaps, but i have seen and heard people getting bent out of shape over seemingly little things and it escalates into a big brouhaha. i think that your mom was trying to caution you. she may seem overzealous but im sure she has experienced so many things--things she hope you will never have to encounter.

personally, with all that teachers do, it is such a shame that you have to be mindful about every little aspect of your lives. you are expected to be miracle workers in the classroom and perform miracles with the little bit of pay you do receive. sorry i digressed here.....

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Are you in the union?

(Sounds silly, but it has a bearing on my opinion)

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Educatingblue

I agree that this is a great way to stay connected to the students on "their" level, but with all of the inappropriate teacher/student situations in the news lately, I am very cautious with how I deal with my students. It only takes one time for "John" to get mad about something in class and tell his parents his teacher has been socializing with him outside of school etc.

That'd be fine. You could then turn over to your administrator all of the logs which would show nothing even remotely inappropriate.

I should probably add that my wife doesn't teach at an ordinary public school, it's a college-prep charter school. The students and faculty interact a lot more outside of class as compared to anything I've seen at any other school.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Kevin

That'd be fine. You could then turn over to your administrator all of the logs which would show nothing even remotely inappropriate.

I should probably add that my wife doesn't teach at an ordinary public school, it's a college-prep charter school. The students and faculty interact a lot more outside of class as compared to anything I've seen at any other school.

And if it's normal interaction for the school, then I suspect it's great. But if it's not typical for the school, you may be setting yourself up for something.

While you might not be fired for mere suspicion of impropriety, it does damage to your professional reputation. What logs do you think would completely clear you?