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  #1  
Old 08-29-2008, 08:57 AM
DaemonSeid DaemonSeid is offline
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American Rhetoric 1 Oh 1

I know there are critics out there who say that Obama has no 'plan' or still have no 'idea' how he will bring change to Washington. Some say that his speech was empty and really did nothing.

I am done listening to Barack's speech. and it sounds kind of like I thought it was...a broad outline of things to be done which will be further covered come the debates.

Then I decided to take a look at what he said last night, and what McCain, Bush and Kerry said and sort of do a comparison to see if any every laid out a 'detailed' plan for what people can expect should they ever get elected.

I will be quoting from the following links

Obama's DNC Acceptance Speech
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/new...ptance-speech/

Bush's RNC Acceptance Speech
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2004Sep2.html

Kerry's DNC Acceptance Speech
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Jul29.html

McCain's Victory Speech


other sources since McCain hasn't given his speech yet:

McCain on Tax reform
http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/John...Tax_Reform.htm

This is what I see so far....


On Taxes:
Bush: Another drag on our economy is the current tax code, which is a complicated mess, filled with special interest loopholes, saddling our people with more than 6 billion hours of paperwork and headache every year. The American people deserve -- and our economic future demands -- a simpler, fairer, pro-growth system.
In a new term, I will lead a bipartisan effort to reform and simplify the federal tax code.

Kerry: And we're going to return to fiscal responsibility because it is the foundation of our economic strength. Our plan will cut the deficit in half in four years by ending tax giveaways that are nothing more than corporate welfare, and we will make government live by the rule that every family has to live by: Pay as you go.
Let me tell you what we won't do: We won't raise taxes on the middle class.
You've heard a lot of false charges about this in recent months. So let me say straight out what I will do as president: I will cut middle-class taxes. I will reduce the tax burden on small business. And I will roll back the tax cuts for the wealthiest individuals who make over $200,000 a year, so we can invest in health care, education and job creation.

McCain: I believe that we've got to simplify the tax code. But one of the first areas we've got to go after is the alternate minimum tax, which is going to eat in to 20 million American families if we don't eliminate it, and very quickly. Look, when we found out that Congress could not close a single military base when we had a huge number of them, we appointed a commission and they said we would close so many bases, and Congress votes up or down. I would find [someone like former Federal Reserve Chairman] Alan Greenspan. I'd say, "Give us your recommendations." We'll pass a law, and we will vote on Alan Greenspan and his commission's recommendations, yes or no, up or down. That's the way you're going to simplify the tax code, which now requires $140 billion of American families' income to prepare their tax returns.

Obama: Change means a tax code that doesn't reward the lobbyists who wrote it, but the American workers and small businesses who deserve it. Unlike John McCain, I will stop giving tax breaks to corporations that ship jobs overseas, and I will start giving them to companies that create good jobs right here in America.I will eliminate capital gains taxes for the small businesses and the startups that will create the high-wage, high-tech jobs of tomorrow.I will cut taxes — cut taxes for 95% of all working families. Because in an economy like this, the last thing we should do is raise taxes on the middle-class.

On Energy and oil

Bush: Not mentioned in transcript (if you find it…please feel free to correct)

KERRY: We value an America that controls its own destiny because it's finally and forever independent ofMideast oil. What does it mean for our economy and our national security when we have only 3 percent of the world's oil reserves, yet we rely on foreign countries for 53 percent of what we consume? I want anAmerica that relies on its ingenuity and innovation, not the Saudi royal family. And our energy plan for a stronger America -- our energy plan will invest in new technologies and alternative fuels and the cars of the future, so that no young American in uniform will ever be held hostage to our dependence on oil from the Middle East.

Obama: And for the sake of our economy, our security, and the future of our planet, I will set a clear goal as president: In ten years, we will finally end our dependence on oil from the Middle East.

Washington's been talking about our oil addiction for the last thirty years, and John McCain has been there for twenty-six of them. In that time, he's said no to higher fuel-efficiency standards for cars, no to investments in renewable energy, no to renewable fuels. And today, we import triple the amount of oil as the day that Senator McCain took office.
Now is the time to end this addiction, and to understand that drilling is a stopgap measure, not a long-term solution. Not even close.
As president, I will tap our natural gas reserves, invest in clean coal technology, and find ways to safely harness nuclear power. I'll help our auto companies retool, so that the fuel-efficient cars of the future are built right here inAmerica. I'll make it easier for the American people to afford these new cars. And I'll invest 150 billion dollars over the next decade in affordable, renewable sources of energy; wind power and solar power and the next generation of biofuels; an investment that will lead to new industries and 5 million new jobs that pay well and can't ever be outsourced.

McCain: No problem is more urgent today thanAmerica's dependence on foreign oil. It threatens our security, our economy and our environment. The next President must be willing to break completely with the energy policies not just of the Bush Administration, but the administrations that preceded his, and lead a great national campaign to put us on a course to energy independence. We must unleash the creativity and genius of Americans, and encourage industries to pursue alternative, non-polluting and renewable energy sources, where demand will never exceed supply.

On Healthcare

Bush: As I've traveled the country, I've met many workers and small- business owners who have told me that they are worried they cannot afford health care. More than half of the uninsured are small- business employees and their families.
In a new term, we must allow small firms to join together to purchase insurance at the discounts available to big companies. We will offer a tax credit to encourage small businesses and their employees to set up health savings accounts and provide direct help for low-income Americans to purchase them. These accounts give workers the security of insurance against major illness, the opportunity to save tax-free for routine health expenses, and the freedom of knowing you can take your account with you whenever you change jobs.

Kerry: Our health care plan for a strongerAmerica cracks down on the waste, and the greed and the abuse in our health-care system, and it will save families $1,000 a year in premiums. You'll get to pick your own doctor. And patients and doctors, not insurance company bureaucrats, will make medical decisions. Under our health care plan......Medicare will negotiate lower drug prices for seniors. And all Americans will be able to buy less expensive prescription drugs from countries like Canada.

Obama: Now is the time to finally keep the promise of affordable, accessible health care for every single American. If you have health care, my plan will lower your premiums. If you don't, you'll be able to get the same kind of coverage that members of Congress give themselves. And as someone who watched my mother argue with insurance companies while she lay in bed dying of cancer, I will make certain those companies stop discriminating against those who are sick and need care the most.
Now is the time to help families with paid sick days and better family leave, because nobody inAmerica should have to choose between keeping their jobs and caring for a sick child or ailing parent.

McCain; Senator Obama thinks we can improve health care by driving Americans into a new system of government orders, regulations and mandates. I believe we can make health care more available, affordable and responsive to patients by breaking from inflationary practices, insurance regulations, and tax policies that were designed generations ago, and by giving families more choices over their care. His plan represents the old ways of government. Mine trusts in the common sense of the American people.


Now remember what you told me, you siad, you heard a lot of promises but no plan as to how it gets done....well after reading over the other transcripts, I see the same thing. I still look at it like this ( and imagine how much longer this would be if I added in Hillary's stuff!) ...we aren't really going to get to the heart of things until the debates. What we got last night, what we will get next week and what we have gotten from the past is a broad outline of what to look for and not the entire blueprint. For those that said that they don't know what Obama stands for...well now you have a framework to reference. Now you have an idea of what to or what not to expect should he be elected....McCain is going preety much do the same next week....lay out an outline of what he wants to do should he get elected, and we should do the same...not only listen to it, but read it and save it so that way, when either one of these men gets elected, some years from now we can reference it and see what was and what wasn't done. Feel free to peruse Bush's speech from 2005 and see what was and what wasn't done. Do the same with Clinton, Bush Sr. and so forth.

Everyone talks smack at the pregame show but you won't know everything to the for real, when it really begins to count matches start...which...won't be until AFTER next week.....you got me?

All this is otherwise known as American Rhetoric 1 Oh 1....tell the people what they wanna hear.

I will save your jobs,

I will Lower your taxes.

I will put a stop to foreign oil....

just wait til next week and put McCain's speech ide by side with Obama...I expect both to be the same and just as broad.
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  #2  
Old 08-29-2008, 12:11 PM
KSig RC KSig RC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonSeid View Post
just wait til next week and put McCain's speech ide by side with Obama...I expect both to be the same and just as broad.
I have absolutely no doubt this is true.

There is, however, a certain irony in a man whose platform tries desperately to highlight the differences between himself and "all those fat cats" falling into exactly the same rhetorical traps that have plagued politics for a century. Change, indeed.
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  #3  
Old 08-29-2008, 12:17 PM
DaemonSeid DaemonSeid is offline
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Originally Posted by KSig RC View Post
I have absolutely no doubt this is true.

There is, however, a certain irony in a man whose platform tries desperately to highlight the differences between himself and "all those fat cats" falling into exactly the same rhetorical traps that have plagued politics for a century. Change, indeed.
LOL ...it's bound to happen...the only difference is if we will 'see' those changes if elected.
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Old 08-29-2008, 01:23 PM
AGDee AGDee is offline
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Daemon, I like you more every day. I do believe you are my hero
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  #5  
Old 08-29-2008, 01:27 PM
DaemonSeid DaemonSeid is offline
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Originally Posted by AGDee View Post
Daemon, I like you more every day. I do believe you are my hero
thank u...that made me feel warm and fuzzy inside!!
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  #6  
Old 08-29-2008, 04:04 PM
a.e.B.O.T. a.e.B.O.T. is offline
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EXACTLY! You got to remember, to make changes as president... you have to be elected president (or have the president die if you were chosen as the VP, or etc...) ... so yes, election are a lot of talk. It would be nice in a perfect world, each nominee could be president for lets say a month, or year, so we could see what actually happens, but OBVIOUSLY that isn't realistic... so they are stuck saying what we need to hear, so they can do what they think needs to be done...
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Old 08-29-2008, 04:10 PM
OneTimeSBX OneTimeSBX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonSeid View Post
thank u...that made me feel warm and fuzzy inside!!
please. thats the tequila.
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Old 08-29-2008, 04:36 PM
Tom Earp Tom Earp is offline
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So, the President has certain powers, but who makes the laws?

The Crongress, and while the Congress has veto powers what do they actually do?

NADA!

I have contacted everyone I know about anything that affects Greeks I get the same thing!!!!

It is like a form letter but with their letter head at the top with their sigs.

I am sure many have not contacted your Senators or Represenatives and if you have I am sure you have gotten the same thing!
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  #9  
Old 08-29-2008, 05:47 PM
AGDee AGDee is offline
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I was lukewarm about Obama (I was in the Edwards camp originally and he has grossly disappointed me). I read every one of his policy papers on his web site and, quite honestly, I was/am concerned about the cost of many of his proposed ideas. However, what I've decided is that I like the goals he has. I don't agree with all of the ways he wants to attain them and I think some of them are quite lofty but then, if he achieves even 25% of it, I trust that Congress will work to keep the costs down (that whole checks and balances thing we have built in) and we will be much better off than we are today. He's growing on me and I'm getting excited about him. I hope I'm not as disappointed as I was after the 2000 and 2004 elections.
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Old 08-29-2008, 06:20 PM
KSig RC KSig RC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a.e.B.O.T. View Post
EXACTLY! You got to remember, to make changes as president... you have to be elected president (or have the president die if you were chosen as the VP, or etc...) ... so yes, election are a lot of talk. It would be nice in a perfect world, each nominee could be president for lets say a month, or year, so we could see what actually happens, but OBVIOUSLY that isn't realistic... so they are stuck saying what we need to hear, so they can do what they think needs to be done...
This is a very . . . optimistic . . . viewpoint. However, hypocrisy is hypocrisy, even if the person being hypocritical has purely altruistic views.

Thus, it's stupid to declare it "OK" for one side and not the other - especially since you have no clue about the actual level of altruism at play - right?
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Old 08-29-2008, 09:37 PM
Liquid Soule Liquid Soule is offline
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Politics is the art of saying and promising much yet doing very little.

The Right The Left two hand connected to the same creature Greed/Power
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