T-shirt club

[Crowboy55]

Alpha Chi Rho stood for on of the last real Authentic Pledge process for frats in the oneonta area, when all you people talk about hazing being a sad thing and making you all look bad, your obiviously part of another T-shirt club. Alpha Chi Rho's national motto is " Be Men ", with that, one would assume that pledging wasnt going to be easy. I pledged to EARN my letters, not to just have them given to me. Whats really sad is how redicoulus most frats are these days, Traditionally pledging is supposed to be hard, learning how to unite and work as one with your pledge brothers to overcome near impossible tasks and obsticals, looking deep inside yourself to find the strength to do one more push-up, or one more sit up, pushing yourself and realizing that the body is capable of doing 9 times what the mind THINKS it can, discovering what your truley capable of.... thats what its all about...



Be Men.

[Kevin]

This post deserves its own thread.

Members of t-shirt clubs... discuss.

[DUKyleXY]

I am a believer that hazing does little to enhance brotherhood. I have been a member of a number of membership organizations, none of which hazed me. I am very certain that my brothers in Delta Upsilon or the Boy Scouts or the Order of the Arrow are bound much tighter than any physical rope could hold us. If you believe that my fraternity is a "t-shirt club", I would say that we are a damn proud "t-shirt club" which has been around since 1834 and been non-hazing since the founding!

Men don't need to be hazed to "Be Men", my fraternity's motto is "Building Better Men" and we can do that without hazing. Personally, I see hazing as a lazy attempt at "true" brotherhood.

Dikaia,
DUKyleXY

[LPIDelta]

Originally Posted by Crowboy55

how to unite and work as one with your pledge brothers to overcome near impossible tasks and obsticals[/U]

You can do that, and most of what you mentioned above, without hazing. The problem is, groups that haze want to take the easy route. They want to humiliate instead of uplift. They want to physically or mentally abuse in the name of team building--when there are so many other ways to accomplish the same task, probably better. Hazing is easy...choosing not to, and being dedicated to true brother/sisterhood and human dignity, is a greater challenge.

I've mentioned several times that I was hazed, and it did nothing to bring us together. It scared my class mates to the point we were attacking the littlest thing instead working together in an uplifting manner. I don't talk to most of those women today so no life long bond was created.

To me, being a man doesn't mean demeaning or treating others poorly. Educating new members should be about challenging each other so that they become BETTER men. So that they learn how to run a business. So that they learn how to deal with people from all backgrounds. So that they learn how to be a brother. It should not be about proving yourself capable of thousands of push-ups or reciting information or playing mind games.

*Off my soapbox*

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by LPIDelta

You can do that, and most of what you mentioned above, without hazing. The problem is, groups that haze want to take the easy route. They want to humiliate instead of uplift. They want to physically or mentally abuse in the name of team building--when there are so many other ways to accomplish the same task, probably better. Hazing is easy...choosing not to, and being dedicated to true brother/sisterhood and human dignity, is a greater challenge.

I've mentioned several times that I was hazed, and it did nothing to bring us together. It scared my class mates to the point we were attacking the littlest thing instead working together in an uplifting manner. I don't talk to most of those women today so no life long bond was created.

To me, being a man doesn't mean demeaning or treating others poorly. Educating new members should be about challenging each other so that they become BETTER men. So that they learn how to run a business. So that they learn how to deal with people from all backgrounds. So that they learn how to be a brother. It should not be about proving yourself capable of thousands of push-ups or reciting information or playing mind games.

*Off my soapbox*

On the other hand, it's easy to ban anything that might remotely be seen as character-building - on the premise that it might be perceived as hazing. What happened to honor? Honor among brothers, or sisters, I might add, means they'll stop true hazing.

My house used to reveal big sisters by having all the pledges find a string with their name on it as they got to the house. They followed that string for up to an hour, all through the house, finding clues and gifts along the way. It finally ended up tied to their big in the chapter room. Somebody felt that might lead to hazing...and the tradition was shut down.

Prohibiting behaviors outright is the coward's way out.

[LPIDelta]

Originally Posted by DGTess

My house used to reveal big sisters by having all the pledges find a string with their name on it as they got to the house. They followed that string for up to an hour, all through the house, finding clues and gifts along the way. It finally ended up tied to their big in the chapter room. Somebody felt that might lead to hazing...and the tradition was shut down.

I agree--that's a fun way to find your big, but why an hour or more? Is that really necessary?? This is why things like this get banned--because if you give an inch, many groups and people will take a mile.

Unfortunately not all chapters have involved advisors to go through the subtle nuances of things--so some things, that I call 'unhealthy traditions' (which may not be hazing...yet) get banned. If we could police ourselves, others wouldn't be doing it for us.

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by LPIDelta

I agree--that's a fun way to find your big, but why an hour or more? Is that really necessary?? This is why things like this get banned--because if you give an inch, many groups and people will take a mile.

Unfortunately not all chapters have involved advisors to go through the subtle nuances of things--so some things, that I call 'unhealthy traditions' (which may not be hazing...yet) get banned. If we could police ourselves, others wouldn't be doing it for us.

I will respectfully disagree. I believe If we WOULD police ourselves, instead of expecting others to do it for us, we'd be in much better shape. When we started expecting others to do it is when we started becoming sheeple instead of leaders.

[Crowboy55]

Originally Posted by LPIDelta

You can do that, and most of what you mentioned above, without hazing. The problem is, groups that haze want to take the easy route. They want to humiliate instead of uplift. They want to physically or mentally abuse in the name of team building--when there are so many other ways to accomplish the same task, probably better. Hazing is easy...choosing not to, and being dedicated to true brother/sisterhood and human dignity, is a greater challenge.

I've mentioned several times that I was hazed, and it did nothing to bring us together. It scared my class mates to the point we were attacking the littlest thing instead working together in an uplifting manner. I don't talk to most of those women today so no life long bond was created.

To me, being a man doesn't mean demeaning or treating others poorly. Educating new members should be about challenging each other so that they become BETTER men. So that they learn how to run a business. So that they learn how to deal with people from all backgrounds. So that they learn how to be a brother. It should not be about proving yourself capable of thousands of push-ups or reciting information or playing mind games.

*Off my soapbox*

When your talking about humiliating and / or treating others poorly you have not understood what i was trying to get across. Sure physical activity and workouts aren't the easiest and most convient thing to do, But thats exactly the point. There are times in life that are going to be very hard and seemingly impossible. while pledging and having to do lots of workouts there is always and brother there helping you, verbaly motivating you to no matter what just keep going, telling you that you CAN do it. Helping you realize how great of an accomplishment you can really make.pledging for me put me through the best and worst times of my life in a short span of time. That time spent with pledge brothers is alot of the point. Seeing eachother and being there for eachother at the hard times, and being there with eachother for the great times..... its like the extreme ups- and downs of growing up all condenced into an 8 week period...... i am the last brother in a frat due to a de-pledge going and ratting on us...... but still to this day there isnt any other way i would of done it... EARNED my letters

[fyrnymph]

Ah, the sweet irony of belonging to a fraternity which had to disband because of the glue that apparently held it together - hazing. It just goes to show - if you build your GLO on a creed to which you and your brothers/sisters aspire, you build it on something solid and lasting. If you build it on merely overcoming artifical "obstacles" and Survivior-type challenges, you don't build anything which will last.
I "earn" my letters everyday by the way I live my life. My sisters have bonded with me through real-life ups and downs - not through an artifical construct that demeans or degrades. What is important to my GLO is not the ability to do push-ups until you vomit - but in developing as women of character who impact our communities, both collegiate and otherwise, through our contributions to them.
Referring to other GLOs as "t-shirt clubs" just goes to show that you don't get it. I'm happy to hear that your GLO is no more, as it was apparently the type that gives the rest of us a bad name.

[LPIDelta]

Originally Posted by Crowboy55

When your talking about humiliating and / or treating others poorly you have not understood what i was trying to get across. Sure physical activity and workouts aren't the easiest and most convient thing to do

See you missed my point--making people do physical activity IS the most convenient and easiest thing to do--it requires no thought on the part of the new member educators to think of these things. As far as being "motivated" by brothers--that can happen when you're doing a sanctioned ropes course, learning something new you've never tried (ballroom dancing, cooking, rockwall climbing), planning a fundraiser or studying together. No need to do hours upon hours of exercise to prove the point. As far as I am concerned, no one should feel loyalty to someone who once treated them like crap. That's not how to "earn" the loyalty of new members.

As far as policing ourselves--that was my point--we aren't doing it so people do it for us. We don't expect them to--we don't even want them to--but campuses have had to in order to protect themselves from liability and lawsuits. If all Greek chapter members followed policies, the laws of our states and lived by the organization's values--then the outside community and campus administration would not feel a need to call us on it and police our programs.

I, too, earn my letters by living my life according to the values of my organization. And as far as new members go, I don't believe that we should bid anyone who does not already represent our values in some way. If you feel the need to break people and rebuild them, then you aren't picking the right men/women to be new members of your organization.

To the OP--you group was shut down because of hazing, and yet you're still here advocating for it! Amazing. Aren't you sad that your group's legacy is that you broke the law? Aren't you sad that men at your university now have one less option to get involved? If you're so loyal to your organization and brothers, wouldn't it have been worth following policies and laws in order to save the chapter??

[texas*princess]

It sounds to me like the OP's org created the "worst" times so that it could artificially bond them in some way.

If you want your pledges to work out, why not invite them to the gym along with you?

I'm not really clear how one extra pushup = a "real" man.

When I was a NM, actives and other NMs would go to the gym together for fun and fitness... we didn't work out because that was how we were supposed to "earn" our letters.

LPI said it best:

I, too, earn my letters by living my life according to the values of my organization. And as far as new members go, I don't believe that we should bid anyone who does not already represent our values in some way. If you feel the need to break people and rebuild them, then you aren't picking the right men/women to be new members of your organization.

[DGTess]

cowboy55 - it's seeming more and more to me you're only welcome on GC if you subscribe to the "we-don't-rush-we-recruit; pledge-is-a-demeaning-term; build-up-your-feelgood; six-weeks-is-time-enough" school of greek membership.

I'm with you. You don't abase, but you don't coddle either. The Greek system seems to me to have become more and more follow the herd and less and less earning your way and learning to lead.

Unfortunately, some people aren't educated enough to recognize the difference between challenging and hazing. Perhaps the flock told them otherwise. Or they're too timid to take a chance based on principles.

At least there are two of us in this world.

[SWTXBelle]

With all due respect, the ones following the "herd" are those who claim that we should continue to do the same things that we have "always" done - including hazing. Those who wish to cling to the idea that somehow "earning" your letters through surviving a gauntlet of physical and emotional abuse will produce leaders. Those who constantly whine about how things were so much better in the good ol' days, and would gladly expose their GLO to libility issues if it meant that they could revisit the days of yore.
How about this - progressive thinking that produces REAL leaders capable of doing more than simply heaping abuse on the newbies. Programming that emphasizes real-world skills that will produce well-rounded members who are capable of building bonds through something other than shared pain and suffering. The educated ones are those who recognize the realities of college today, and are unwilling to sacrifice the future to those who would cling to the worst aspects of the past. Are things perfect now? No. But they won't be changed by those who can only criticize - it is the members who continue to contribute and refine new member (or pledge, if that makes you happy) programs and who chose to involve themselves in the growth of their GLO.

Would that there were only two of you in the world.

[LPIDelta]

Following the laws of the state and the policies of a private membership organization and living according to the oath you took at initiation does not equal following the herd. It takes integrity and character, which are qualities of great leaders.

[DGTess]

In no way have I ever, ever, condoned hazing - as it should be defined.

I have condoned, and celebrated, some activities that according to NPC definitions, could be defined as hazing. But since authorities at all levels have chosen to limit some activities of a character-building nature on the off chance they might offend, they've lost a great opportunity to teach the difference.

It's like banning the use of an additive because it may cause health concerns in some - rather than identifying the risk and allowing people to live with their own choices.