Important Question

[L.O.C.K.]

Hey all,
I have a question regarding schools having expansion bans in place for Greek orgs.

Is this process even legal? Like, if a group of guys wanted to start a chapter but an expansion ban was in place, couldn't they argue freedom of association and that it is infringing upon their rights as citizens/students?

My rationale for this is that a couple of years ago the university tried to prevent the NAACP from coming onto campus because it was part of a national organization, but they lost the battle b/c of Freedom of Association.

Any thoughts would be welcome!!

Thanks,
Nate

[SigmaPezY60]

usually schools put a ban on expansion for awhile because they want to improve the existing organizations first. They may want to bring numbers up on campus, or make sure that all of the organizations are on good standing. Also most campus do not allow locals to expand to their campus....for liability issues that Locals bring (aka no insurance).

[33girl]

They can put a ban on new Greek orgs being recognized by campus...however, unless it's a private college, the students (if they are supported by a national, or even if they're not) are more than free to form a new Greek org and meet off campus and not use campus facilities.

It's a WHOLE different ball game than not recognizing the NAACP...when I read that, I literally said "WHOA" out loud. Where the heck do you go to school??

[L.O.C.K.]

Don't quote me, but I think it happened with the establishment of an NAACP chapter here at GW about 10-15 years ago.

My question is...if they don't have any Asian interest fraternities or sororities on campus and they want to put a hold on expansion, that clearly shows that it's not fair? Because there is no other option for interested members.

I did a little research...

From the AFA website, http://www.fraternityadvisors.org/Re...sociation.aspx

[Adopted October 2003]
[Replacing AFA Resolution on Expansion Within the Fraternity/Sorority Community 1999]

Whereas, colleges and universities have an opportunity to provide a positive and impactful learning environment for their students; and

Whereas, fraternities and sororities on these campuses can influence the overall satisfaction and retention of their members through meaningful experiences; and

Whereas, the American freedom to associate is guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution; and

Whereas, this freedom is reaffirmed in exemptions from Title IX by the Education Amendments of 1972 as it applies to fraternal organizations; therefore

Resolved, that the Association of Fraternity Advisors supports the right of students to freely associate with or assemble into fraternities and sororities; and

Be it further resolved, that the Association of Fraternity Advisors also supports the right of colleges and universities to establish reasonable procedures for the official recognition of and provision of services to their student organizations.

Law Website, http://www.law.cornell.edu/anncon/se...rag8_user.html



Like, if AFA says it, it basically sets the tone for fraternal orgs.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by L.O.C.K.

Hey all,
I have a question regarding schools having expansion bans in place for Greek orgs.

Is this process even legal? Like, if a group of guys wanted to start a chapter but an expansion ban was in place, couldn't they argue freedom of association and that it is infringing upon their rights as citizens/students?

My rationale for this is that a couple of years ago the university tried to prevent the NAACP from coming onto campus because it was part of a national organization, but they lost the battle b/c of Freedom of Association.

Any thoughts would be welcome!!

Thanks,
Nate

When we chartered the Delta chapter at my undergraduate school there was a ban on new BGLOS establishing (AKAs, Kappas, and Alphas were recognized.) They couched it in terms of not allowing anymore GLOs period, but there were no other GLOs trying to get on campus at the time. However, because our validity comes from our national HQ we were able to form the chapter and just not be recognized by the school. Essentially all this meant was that we couldn't get a house on greek row and we couldn't use the facilities as a student organization. It also meant we didn't have to pay student organization fees.

Ironically, our national president at the time was the first Black Civil Rights Commissioner and the school's pan-hell brought her to campus to speak. When she realized that we were not recognized on campus, she wanted to know why. After she had conversations with school officials, we plus the Omegas, Sigmas, SGRhos and Zetas became recognized.

[L.O.C.K.]

hahahaha, awesome!

Yea, like it baffles me as to why they'd have a "school-wide ban" which clearly hurts communities that aren't represented much more.

I mean, there are no Asian Fraternities on campus, haha, who are they protecting??

[PsychTau2]

Originally Posted by L.O.C.K.

From the AFA website, http://www.fraternityadvisors.org/Re...sociation.aspx

[Adopted October 2003]
[Replacing AFA Resolution on Expansion Within the Fraternity/Sorority Community 1999]

Whereas, colleges and universities have an opportunity to provide a positive and impactful learning environment for their students; and

Whereas, fraternities and sororities on these campuses can influence the overall satisfaction and retention of their members through meaningful experiences; and

Whereas, the American freedom to associate is guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution; and

Whereas, this freedom is reaffirmed in exemptions from Title IX by the Education Amendments of 1972 as it applies to fraternal organizations; therefore

Resolved, that the Association of Fraternity Advisors supports the right of students to freely associate with or assemble into fraternities and sororities; and

Be it further resolved, that the Association of Fraternity Advisors also supports the right of colleges and universities to establish reasonable procedures for the official recognition of and provision of services to their student organizations.

Law Website, http://www.law.cornell.edu/anncon/se...rag8_user.html



Like, if AFA says it, it basically sets the tone for fraternal orgs.

That AFA resolution is not binding on any campus or fraternal organization. AFA is a professional association, and has no governance over anyone but itself. So, they can suggest and resolve, but not force and require.

Judge Mitch Crane has an excellent answer to this question...we've discussed it before. I can't explain it nearly as well as he can, but the basic premise is that "Freedom of Association" from the constitution doesn't automatically protect social-based organizations just because we're social organizations (meaning, those organizations that aren't formed specifically to further a cause, like NAACP...I think. That's the part I'm not so great at explaining). A public university can enact a ban against not recognizing any fraternal organizations, but they cannot say "We won't recognize Sigma Phi Epsilon but we will recognize Sigma Chi" just because they don't like SigEp as an organization. They CAN say that if that organization has disciplinary issues...they CANNOT say that just because they "don't like" the org or the members.

Of course, if the public university doesn't have a good, solid reason for a ban, then that opens the door for an org to "push" their way onto a campus, but that might not be the most positive way to do it. Private universities have a lot more control over stuff like that.

He (and probably others) can explain it better than I can. His website is http://www.judgemitch.com...you might be able to email him the question and see if he'll answer it.

I think there's a small trend going on now where schools are choosing to control their expansion and will actually have a plan where they will add chapters every X number of years, and are already choosing which organizations will expand in what year.

PsychTau

[jaade124]

Originally Posted by PsychTau2

I think there's a small trend going on now where schools are choosing to control their expansion and will actually have a plan where they will add chapters every X number of years, and are already choosing which organizations will expand in what year.
PsychTau

Yes my school is one of those schools. Its harder to expand on smaller campuses where greek life is not doing so well. Our enrollment for recruitment (as far as sororities go) has gone down more and more with each semester. People are just not as interested and because of that the sororities already established are suffering. Therefore, my school (which is private) has chosen to not allow any further expansion in order for the sororites already there to grow and try and reach total. However, what happens if a local wants to go national? Is that the same as expansion? There's been a rumor that one local is going national and that has the other sororities worried because that usually takes girls away from the rest of us (because of the allure of being a founding sister, not going through recruitment, etc. etc.). Any thoughts?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by jaade124

However, what happens if a local wants to go national? Is that the same as expansion? There's been a rumor that one local is going national and that has the other sororities worried because that usually takes girls away from the rest of us (because of the allure of being a founding sister, not going through recruitment, etc. etc.). Any thoughts?

In NPC's eyes, yes. In the school's eyes, maybe not. They might actually welcome it since then a lot of the liablility will get transferred onto the national whereas before it was all on the school.

[Tom Earp]

I find this very odd when it comes to BGLOs.

Many schools will not allow GLOs to come on campus especially NPH if they are not reaching numbers for present houses.

NIC GLOs are sometimes denied as there are enough for that particular school and the school population.

Would really like to get more information concerning this type of situation.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by L.O.C.K.

Is this process even legal? Like, if a group of guys wanted to start a chapter but an expansion ban was in place, couldn't they argue freedom of association and that it is infringing upon their rights as citizens/students?

Freedom of Association is protected by the First Amendment. It only prohibits the government from infringing on the right of freedom of association, so in this context, it only applies to public universities.

Beyond that, any college or university can choose what groups to recognize and what groups not to recognize. As long as such decisions are made on objective and evenly-applied criteria, there likely is not a problem. Just because a college doesn't recognize an org you belong to doesn't necessarily mean that the college is infringing upon any freedom of association rights.

The NAACP would be in a different catagory because of its political nature.

Originally Posted by PsychTau2

That AFA resolution is not binding on any campus or fraternal organization. AFA is a professional association, and has no governance over anyone but itself. So, they can suggest and resolve, but not force and require.

Exactly. Resolutions like this tend to be sound and fury, signifying nothing.

[Tom Earp]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Freedom of Association is protected by the First Amendment. It only prohibits the government from infringing on the right of freedom of association, so in this context, it only applies to public universities.

Beyond that, any college or university can choose what groups to recognize and what groups not to recognize. As long as such decisions are made on objective and evenly-applied criteria, there likely is not a problem. Just because a college doesn't recognize an org you belong to doesn't necessarily mean that the college is infringing upon any freedom of association rights.

The NAACP would be in a different catagory because of its political nature.

Exactly. Resolutions like this tend to be sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Interesting, but is it equal rights for all or just a few and who make the decisions?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

Interesting, but is it equal rights for all or just a few and who make the decisions?

If you're talking about a private school, it's not a question of "rights" at all. The Constitution confers power on and limits the power of the federal government and defines the relationship of the federal government to the states and the states to each other; it simply doesn't apply to private institutions. And as PsychTau explained, even when the Constitution comes into play, purely social organizations don't have the protection that groups with political purposes have, since the freedom of association in the First Amendment is aimed primarily at association for the purpose of political (in the broadest sense) activity.

[FSUZeta]

lock, my question is "are all groups (npc, nic, pan-hell, multi-cultural) banned at present from colonizing on your campus, or is it just asian fraternal organizations?

if it is all groups, then i think you are probably going to have to be patient. the admin. must have a reason for banning expansion at present. your only alternative would be to become a squeeky wheel and prove to the administration that the campus needs an asian fraternity and show how the campus would benefit from the addition of the fraternity.

[L.O.C.K.]

I believe it is all Greeks. However, they don't have an Asian Fraternity, and we already have documented interest (ie a sizeable group of people).

Basically, it just seems really unfair to make these kids wait because clearly their needs are not being met by the campus at present.

And it is a public institution.