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11-14-2007, 05:02 PM
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A Troubled Man and 20 Police Bullets in Brooklyn
and yet another brutal police killing sparking questions in NYC
not more than a year after another shooting claimed the life of a man the day before he was to be married.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/14/ny...4shooting.html
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11-14-2007, 06:17 PM
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Suicide by cop.
Very sad for his family.
Also, the officers involved must feel horrible.
People like that should just go swimming with a hair dryer.
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11-14-2007, 06:49 PM
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Location: Who you calling "boy"? The name's Hand Banana . . .
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonSeid
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Assuming the story's events are even mostly accurate, this seems like the antithesis of brutality - the officers made every attempt I could imagine to settle the situation, calling in tactical units and a negotiator. If the kid talked about having a gun and acted like he had something under his shirt, what else should the officers do here?
Note that the overwhelming majority of wounds were to the victim's legs, as well.
I'm not sure we can hold police to some standard that says "if you think he has a gun, fire one shot, wait, maybe fire another" - six shots as the most seems like what I would have done, too.
This is as unfortunate as life can be - it really is. It's unfortunate the kid didn't get the treatment he needed and the care he deserved from the medical community. This has all the hallmarks of "suicide by cop", though, doesn't it? The police seemed to work pretty hard to not give in to his wish to die, if the article's timeline is correct . . .
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11-15-2007, 02:14 PM
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For Pete's sake, they should have KNOWN he didn't have a gun. Personal firearms possession is not permitted in New York City.
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Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population.-Einstein |
11-15-2007, 02:15 PM
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Location: Who you calling "boy"? The name's Hand Banana . . .
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGTess
For Pete's sake, they should have KNOWN he didn't have a gun. Personal firearms possession is not permitted in New York City.
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Are you serious?
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11-15-2007, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGTess
For Pete's sake, they should have KNOWN he didn't have a gun. Personal firearms possession is not permitted in New York City.
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Wow. You've got to be kidding me.
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11-15-2007, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGTess
For Pete's sake, they should have KNOWN he didn't have a gun. Personal firearms possession is not permitted in New York City.
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Neither is possesion of cocaine. So for Pete's sake, everyone KNOWS there's no cocaine in NYC.
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I think pearls are lovely, especially when you need something to clutch. ~ AzTheta
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11-15-2007, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGTess
For Pete's sake, they should have KNOWN he didn't have a gun. Personal firearms possession is not permitted in New York City.
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Bless your heart.
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11-15-2007, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSig RC
Assuming the story's events are even mostly accurate, this seems like the antithesis of brutality - the officers made every attempt I could imagine to settle the situation, calling in tactical units and a negotiator. If the kid talked about having a gun and acted like he had something under his shirt, what else should the officers do here?
Note that the overwhelming majority of wounds were to the victim's legs, as well.
I'm not sure we can hold police to some standard that says "if you think he has a gun, fire one shot, wait, maybe fire another" - six shots as the most seems like what I would have done, too.
This is as unfortunate as life can be - it really is. It's unfortunate the kid didn't get the treatment he needed and the care he deserved from the medical community. This has all the hallmarks of "suicide by cop", though, doesn't it? The police seemed to work pretty hard to not give in to his wish to die, if the article's timeline is correct . . .
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Sig...my issue lies with the mother...I am trying to wrap my head around why she called in the first place...you get this feeling that somehow she was tired of dealing with him?
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Law and Order: Gotham - “In the Criminal Justice System of Gotham City the people are represented by three separate, yet equally important groups. The police who investigate crime, the District Attorneys who prosecute the offenders, and the Batman. These are their stories.”
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11-15-2007, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macallan25
Wow. You've got to be kidding me.
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Ther are no criminals in NYC.
none.
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Law and Order: Gotham - “In the Criminal Justice System of Gotham City the people are represented by three separate, yet equally important groups. The police who investigate crime, the District Attorneys who prosecute the offenders, and the Batman. These are their stories.”
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11-15-2007, 03:47 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Location: Who you calling "boy"? The name's Hand Banana . . .
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonSeid
Sig...my issue lies with the mother...I am trying to wrap my head around why she called in the first place...you get this feeling that somehow she was tired of dealing with him?
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Yeah - that's definitely odd, although if the mother was legit scared, I don't fault her too much for calling someone (ostensibly? presumably?) trained better than she is . . . the whole situation just sucks, really. I think every single person even moderately involved comes out way the worse as a result.
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11-15-2007, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonSeid
Ther are no criminals in NYC.
none.
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LOL of course not, no one does drugs, sells drugs, has guns.... I met someone last night whose cousin is a gun trafficker.... wtf?!  
I had to call the cops on some kids beating the bejesus out of each other the other night across the street, and I live outside NYC. (not that it has anything to do with it, but my point is that it's everywhere)
I love this city, but sometimes it makes me want to run for the hills.
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11-15-2007, 04:04 PM
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Location: Kansas City, Kansas USA
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The article did not say if the alley way was dark or lit.
If an Officer "thinks" that the individual has a weapon then they have a justification to fire.
If there is gun fire, it is an automatic reaction to fire at a suspect if they thought he had a weapon.
While none of us were there and do not know if it was a rightous shooting, that is the question.
It is also called the Blue Wall. I never liked that idea if there was a cover up myself. If it was a bad COP, I did not back off one damn bit in my Department! I hated brutal COPs and they knew it!! 
Some said I needed to take care of my own! They were not my own if they did not do right!
I have been there and it is never easy for a Police Officer to shoot anyone and have that on thier head forever.
Yes, no weapons are allowed in NY unless your were a local Officer. Did I have mine when I went there Yes. Did I hide it Yes! I was not legal in the eyes of NY!
If this person did not obey orders from the Officers on the scene, he left himself open. There was a call to the P D, that is why they were there.
What happened next is anyones conjunture and none of ours as none were there!
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11-15-2007, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Earp
If an Officer "thinks" that the individual has a weapon then they have a justification to fire.
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No, if an officer reasonably thinks (1) that the individual has a weapon, (2) that he is about to use it, and (3) that the use of force is necessary to protect himself or others, then he has justification to fire.
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11-15-2007, 04:36 PM
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Banned
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I'm not a cop so I don't completely understand this...but 20 bullets? I'm assuming that's 20 bullets that hit him and not the total fired. Anyway, 20 bullets?? If someone needs to be shot, you just create a killing field? What if there were other people nearby?
Clearly I don't know what happened but 20 bullets still sounds ridiculously high to me.
-Rudey
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