Pre nuptual Agreement...?

DaemonSeid · #1 10-16-2007, 08:01 AM

Had an interesting call over the weekend.

My cousin called to give good news....her boyfriend of 5 years finally proposed to her and she accepted.

We are all happy for them of course and she is excited but then, she tells me that he brought up the question of getting a pre nuptual agreement.

Here is the twist on it.

- She is making more money that he is, which he has no problems with.

- His idea is that the pre nup should be good for 5 years and if thier marriage survives beyond that, let the agreement dissolve.

his ideology is that he want's to do this to protect her just in case something happens. They are an otherwise happy couple with no hang ups and 2 wonderful kids but he acknowledges how marriage changes people and God forbid if something happened and they divorce, it could get really bad.

One of thier other friends that we all know had a really ugly divorce after only 4 years but had been together for 10 and as far as we know are still fighting over property.

I told her, I think it may be a good idea...I especially like the part of it not being a long lasting agreement and I told her if that is his way of thinking, I don't think he is being selfish but in a way, pragmatic about the situation and perhaps should at least look into it.

Any thoughts or opinions?

nikki1920 · #2 10-16-2007, 08:14 AM

I say go for it.

AlphaFrog · #3 10-16-2007, 08:20 AM

Honestly, I see the practicality of a pre-nup...especially in situations where one person is making significantly more than the other person, BUT if you go into a marriage that cynical, or with an easy "out" it doesn't bode well for the marriage. I went into my marriage with the expectation that it was going to be difficult, but lasting. I knew that marriage is not easy or magic, but hard work, and worth it. There are times when I'd love to strangle my husband, but I still wouldn't trade him for anything. I might feel different if millions of dollars were involved, but I still doubt it.

DaemonSeid · #4 10-16-2007, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Honestly, I see the practicality of a pre-nup...especially in situations where one person is making significantly more than the other person, BUT if you go into a marriage that cynical, or with an easy "out" it doesn't bode well for the marriage. I went into my marriage with the expectation that it was going to be difficult, but lasting. I knew that marriage is not easy or magic, but hard work, and worth it. There are times when I'd love to strangle my husband, but I still wouldn't trade him for anything. I might feel different if millions of dollars were involved, but I still doubt it.

that's the thing...she does have a lot more than he does and owns 2 peices of property.

I met him and he is a really likeable guy and just trying to right himself in the world.....I personally think they would last but....you never know

PhoenixAzul · #5 10-16-2007, 11:37 AM

If they're planning on getting married in the Catholic church (dunno, you didn't mention?), then they may refuse to do the ceremony if you have a pre-nup. My future husband and I found this out through our pre-marriage classes. They say that it indicates a lack of commitment to the relationship. It is, however, permitted in cases where two widowers are marrying, and then it is to protect the inheritance of any children from the previous marriage.

Not that he and I were going to have one, we're both equally broke.

DaemonSeid · #6 10-16-2007, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhoenixAzul

If they're planning on getting married in the Catholic church (dunno, you didn't mention?), then they may refuse to do the ceremony if you have a pre-nup. My future husband and I found this out through our pre-marriage classes. They say that it indicates a lack of commitment to the relationship. It is, however, permitted in cases where two widowers are marrying, and then it is to protect the inheritance of any children from the previous marriage.

Not that he and I were going to have one, we're both equally broke.

nope...Baptist...heheh

AKA_Monet · #7 10-16-2007, 07:37 PM

I dunno? I kinna agree with AlphaFrog. Unless one spouse is exceptionally rich and famous, I could understand the pre-nup. However, if both are not filthy rich or famous, and they are of moderate income, then I don't see the need for a pre-nup.

A better choice is to go to a financial advisor that will walk a couple through their budgets and see how well the expenses will be shared and those that are not.

Either way, married couples get tax penalized unless they have great CPA's doing their taxes... The Franchise Tax Board of California went after me during our first year of marriage. I was so worried they would take money from my husband who has NEVER lived or worked in the State of California... Fortunately, I paid off the fools and we never heard from them again.

Munchkin03 · #8 10-17-2007, 08:20 AM

If there are kids involved, or ANY family property, you should have a pre-nup, even to note that the property stays in the family in the event that the owning spouse predeceases the other.

MysticCat · #9 10-17-2007, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

A better choice is to go to a financial advisor that will walk a couple through their budgets and see how well the expenses will be shared and those that are not.

I agree.

And as for her owning "2 pieces of property," she should consult with a lawyer about property and domestic laws in the state where she lives. These laws can vary a great deal from state to state. In some states, property she owns prior to the marriage remains hers unless she deeds a portion of it to him. She shouldn't assume anything there.

As for the 5-year part, I don't see much value in that. So what if at 3 1/2 years, he's figured out he wants out. What's to keep him from hanging around until the 5-year mark has been passed?

Benzgirl · #10 10-17-2007, 10:26 PM

I agree with your cousin. Depending on what state the property is in, without a pre-nup, the husband has equal rights to the properties. In some states, you have Dower Rights, in others Community Property. To throw a twist into it, certain states will have equal rights for the primary residence only. However, there are states where the "what's mine is mine" rule applies.

Without knowing the details, I would do the same if I were in her situation. I am unmarried (have always been single) and have three properties. I live in a Dower Rights state, so a potential spouse would only have rights to my primary residence, BUT that would be half ownership.

Your cousin is smart to keep it simple and clean.

CutiePie2000 · #11 10-18-2007, 12:41 AM

Get the pre-nup......

AKA_Monet · #12 10-18-2007, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat

As for the 5-year part, I don't see much value in that. So what if at 3 1/2 years, he's figured out he wants out. What's to keep him from hanging around until the 5-year mark has been passed?

^^^ Interestingly, some states have "Covenant Marriage Licenses". Couples cannot get divorced for irreconcilable differences. Folks can divorce due to abandonment, abuse, gross monetary mismanagement, felony convictions or one other item. However the licensing folks told us that folks can still get divorced and the lawyers make alot of money...

Munchkin03 · #13 10-18-2007, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

^^^ Interestingly, some states have "Covenant Marriage Licenses". Couples cannot get divorced for irreconcilable differences. Folks can divorce due to abandonment, abuse, gross monetary mismanagement, felony convictions or one other item. However the licensing folks told us that folks can still get divorced and the lawyers make alot of money...

Don't forget, a few states still don't offer "no-fault" divorces...

MysticCat · #14 10-18-2007, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benzgirl

Depending on what state the property is in, without a pre-nup, the husband has equal rights to the properties. In some states, you have Dower Rights, in others Community Property.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Interestingly, some states have "Covenant Marriage Licenses". Couples cannot get divorced for irreconcilable differences. Folks can divorce due to abandonment, abuse, gross monetary mismanagement, felony convictions or one other item.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Don't forget, a few states still don't offer "no-fault" divorces...

All of this goes to why cousin simply cannot make an informed decision without talking to a lawyer who can advise her on the laws in the state where she lives, and why no one here can give any advice other than as to what kind of tone it sets for starting the marriage off.

DSTCHAOS · #15 10-18-2007, 10:16 AM

She probably isn't, and will not be, making enough money for a prenuptial agreement to be necessary. A lot of people talk prenup to overestimate their income and wealth reality or potential, and also as a way of being a complete self-important asshole.

As far as I'm concerned, prenuptial agreements are for substantial income and wealth differentials in which people want to agree to a set distribution if things don't work out. It is unfortunate that people are looking forward to things not working out. But, the prenup shouldn't be applied to people who are just breaking 100K-200K a year but have no wealth accumulated. That's still a paycheck from broke, as far as I'm concerned. Some people are even obnoxious enough to do a prenup because they make 80K a year and their future spouse makes 50K--making more than someone who makes a relatively small amount isn't a substantial enough income differential for a prenup.

Now as for splitting up the property, although I still think prenups are a sucky concept, that makes more sense. But not if they only have 1 house that neither owned before getting married. Only if there is substantial property to be broken up--especially a house that's worth more than 100K. I think couples need to see what the nature of their breakup is before assuming that the person with all the money and property is not going to be the reason for the breakup--i.e. infedility.