Chapter at Historically African American Campuses

[Oldest_Pledge]

With the NBC News covering the efforts of some historically African American colleges and universities actively recruiting caucasians and hispanics....

I got to wondering....why not offer a different fraternity experience to those same schools and seek expansion opportunities there?

I know that the experience is different in those fraternities that are predominately African American. And I not feel that those fraternities are any less or any more than our own beloved Beta Theta Pi.

I just wonder if there would any interest at our national office and at any of the historically African American colleges and universities in having a chapter of Beta Theta Pi on thier campuses.

I know I would gladly support them.

[EE-BO]

I am not with the national office, but as an involved alumnus I don't see it as an issue at all. I think it should be handled like any other expansion- look at a given campus and the prospects of getting a viable chapter going, and then do it or don't do it on the same criteria that would apply anywhere else.

In the almost 10 years since I was active in my chapter, the racial makeup of a great many fraternities has changed quite a bit. As long as chapters are bringing in quality men- then whatever changes is fine with me.

Generally speaking, I think fraternities are more social reflections than social drivers. They are not a place where you find a whole lot of barrier-breaking initiatives, but at the same time at any given moment they will reflect societal trends.

Greek Life in general is actually changing in a big way as the collegiate population becomes more diverse. In fact, at Texas the Greek population remains in the 10-11% range only because there has been a dramatic growth in race-specific or more inclusive GLOs.

The traditional stereotypical all-white or near all-white fraternities here are very few these days- and their numbers are dwindling. They will always be with us, but they are no longer the only option.

I am not expressing an opinion on that point- each GLO has its own membership selection process which is their business. But I am happy to see that Beta is not turning down great candidates on arbitrary measures.

[Oldest_Pledge]

Originally Posted by EE-BO

I am not with the national office, but as an involved alumnus I don't see it as an issue at all.

Do you mean issue as in not currently being discussed?

Originally Posted by EE-BO

I think it should be handled like any other expansion- look at a given campus and the prospects of getting a viable chapter going, and then do it or don't do it on the same criteria that would apply anywhere else.

I agree. I was wondering out loud if this has been actually and seriously considered, discussed, researched etc......

Originally Posted by EE-BO

In the almost 10 years since I was active in my chapter, the racial makeup of a great many fraternities has changed quite a bit. As long as chapters are bringing in quality men- then whatever changes is fine with me.

I have seen this as well. I am glad that there are racially mixed chapters. It helps those not exposed to other races due to whetever reasons to really get to know some one that is different. My parents purposely put me in a school system that was 80% African American and 19% caucasian and 1% all others.

Originally Posted by EE-BO

Generally speaking, I think fraternities are more social reflections than social drivers. They are not a place where you find a whole lot of barrier-breaking initiatives, but at the same time at any given moment they will reflect societal trends.

And why is this? Why isn't Beta Theta Pi a social driver on the campuses at which we have chapters? Shouldn't we be?

Originally Posted by EE-BO

Greek Life in general is actually changing in a big way as the collegiate population becomes more diverse. In fact, at Texas the Greek population remains in the 10-11% range only because there has been a dramatic growth in race-specific or more inclusive GLOs.

Sad that there is more diviness going on.

Originally Posted by EE-BO

The traditional stereotypical all-white or near all-white fraternities here are very few these days- and their numbers are dwindling. They will always be with us, but they are no longer the only option.

Yes.

I started this thread because the news item got me thinking. I hope there is more discussion here.

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by Oldest_Pledge

Do you mean issue as in not currently being discussed?

No- to clarify I mean there is not a problem. But I also do not feel it merits any special discussion- please see my next post responding to one of your other questions for my reasoning.

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by Oldest_Pledge

And why is this? Why isn't Beta Theta Pi a social driver on the campuses at which we have chapters? Shouldn't we be?

This question gets to a larger issue- that of rush.

Rush is sacred. When it comes to the actual selection of individual members, the active members of a given chapter have the absolute decisionmaking power- and I have yet to see the advisor or General Fraternity officer who would dare cross that line. And may God go with them if they do (I have seen alumni offer "commentary" on new pledges that was out of bounds and the aftermath it brought on.)

Opinions are sometimes sought of course- but really more in terms of looking at logistical factors- not inherent aspects of individuals. And usually I have found these are financially related- specifically how payment plans could be arranged or dues reductions could be done in a case of true hardship for someone who we really want to join or reaffiliate.

There is no way, in my strong opinion, that chapters could be encouraged to diversify their membership on any grounds (be it racial, religious or otherwise) without creating a level of intrusion that would be intolerable and would completely disregard the judgement of the active members. The only way to something like that and have it work would be to impose arbitrary standards (for example grades) that would guarantee a person can get in- with no regard for the individual feelings of members.

Fraternity chapters reflect their campuses and the decisions of individual members. Diversity exists in our overall composition- but at the chapter level it is easy to miss that in the process of missing the forest for the trees. Reaffiliations to other chapters are never automatic and don't always happen precisely because chapters can be wildly different in their membership and internal management.

To me the right answer is to, whenever asked or just in one's actions and presence, make it clear to the chapter that advisors and alumni respect their choices of rush candidates regardless of whether that candidate would have been acceptable back when that alumnus was active. This validates a chapter's desire to act on their own judgement- and that is a critical aspect of the maturation that fraternities offer their members.

It is not just about race either- finances and lifestyle play a role too when it comes to recruitment. Back when I was active, Beta was twice as expensive at my school as it is now because we had the largest fraternity house on campus. There are a lot of Betas since that house was sold who have been great brothers but would never have been able to join when the dues alone were nearly $5,000 per year.

On the other hand, there are many guys from my era who would probably not be offered a bid from the current chapter if they were rushing today. Back in my time there was a lot more partying and most of us were business and history majors who spent our weekends hunting and fishing. The chapter today is quite different- mostly engineers and far more scholastically focused.

This does not mean that either era, or any era, of my chapter's existence was better than another.

I just state all this to support my case that member recruitment has to be in the hands of the active chapter since even the most involved alumnus cannot possibly be in tune with all the nuances of the day that affect rush- and therefore cannot be relied upon to provide overall beneficial guidance on who to pledge and on what grounds.

All IMHO.

[Oldest_Pledge]

Originally Posted by EE-BO

No- to clarify I mean there is not a problem. But I also do not feel it merits any special discussion- please see my next post responding to one of your other questions for my reasoning.

OK. However, I think I would disagree with you and think there should be some discussion by the "group in charge of expansion."

While I do not want the discussion to specifically be "let's go to a historically African-American campus," I would hope the conversation would be more like "this idea has some merit. Let us explore those opportunities that may have not been previously explored."

[Oldest_Pledge]

Originally Posted by EE-BO

There is no way, in my strong opinion, that chapters could be encouraged to diversify their membership on any grounds (be it racial, religious or otherwise) without creating a level of intrusion that would be intolerable and would completely disregard the judgement of the active members.

I absolutely agree. And I did not mean to imply that I felt Beta Theta Pi was/is a non-inclusive fraternity. In fact, it is very evident that our chapters do reach across racial, religous, ethnic and economic boundries.

I was going more towards just approaching a historically African-American collge or univeristy to see if they would welcome Beta Theta Pi on campus.

Whether or not it would be successful is another issue.

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by Oldest_Pledge

OK. However, I think I would disagree with you and think there should be some discussion by the "group in charge of expansion."

While I do not want the discussion to specifically be "let's go to a historically African-American campus," I would hope the conversation would be more like "this idea has some merit. Let us explore those opportunities that may have not been previously explored."

Ah, I see what you mean- and yes that does make good sense.

While the recruitment process and funds allocation should be the same as elsewhere, there would have to be some consideration and discussion about entering into a new area for all IFC organizations- specifically to recruit at schools where IFC organizations have never existed to the degree at more traditional colleges and universities.

I am all for expanding as much as possible. At the campuses I follow, IFC fraternity numbers are down- very sharply at Texas for a start. The overall Greek population at UT is about the same as when I was there, but that is represented by a sharp drop in IFC membership and a strong growth in membership in other Greek Councils.

If we want to succeed in moving in new directions such as our increased emphasis on academics- then I think we have to expand anywhere we can as existing chapters take their time adjusting to these new measures.

Being extra selective about membership is good, but being excessively selective about the schools we colonize is not.

IMHO.

[Oldest_Pledge]

Originally Posted by EE-BO

....but that is represented by a sharp drop in IFC membership and a strong growth in membership in other Greek Councils.

And why isn't Beta Theta Pi being a social leader on campus (any campus) and looking to bring all male GLOs under one "Unified IFC?"

What is Beta Theta Pi doing on these campuses (those experiencing growth of other Greek Councils) to make us equally "attractive" (for the lack of a better word?
I am not saying that these are renegades or not good for a campuses social life. And I am not saying we need to lower standards. But, rather, I am asking what are we doing on these campuses to give Beta a better image overall to attract the best of the best on campus that these other groups are seemingly able to attract?

[Senusret I]

I hope you don't mind me crashing....

I, for one, am all about the freedom of association. I believe that if there is an interest in NIC fraternities (or their peers) to colonize at an HBCU, that's a good thing. Everyone wasn't meant to be an Alpha.

But as someone who has rechartered a chapter of Alpha Phi Omega at an HBCU and a witness to an NIC colonization at another HBCU... I'd like to just say that any organization that targets HBCUs OR that is investigating an interest group at an HBCU must absolutely play close attention to the culture of the school.

I think some HBCUs would be great fits with some NIC organizations. Others would not be.

You've got to KNOW the campus. Are all five NPHC fraternities already on campus and performing well? Is one organization on suspension? Which ones are active?

I think reputation is important. You don't want to be known as the fraternity that popped up because ABC was "off the yard."

Numbers are also important. Are you okay with being a chapter
of ten on a campus of 10,000?

Who are your consultants/field reps? Are they well versed in HBCU culture and traditions? Trust me, sending the black field reps to the HBCU might not work out well if the rep sticks out like a sore thumb culturally. I personally (as a black guy) sometimes find more in common with white farm boys from Nebraska than black suburban guys from Maryland.

Anyway, I hope I'm not overstepping my bounds... I just don't want to see another effort for NIC orgs at HBCUs to fail as miserably as the one I've seen.

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by Oldest_Pledge

And why isn't Beta Theta Pi being a social leader on campus (any campus) and looking to bring all male GLOs under one "Unified IFC?"

What is Beta Theta Pi doing on these campuses (those experiencing growth of other Greek Councils) to make us equally "attractive" (for the lack of a better word?

To answer the first question- at every school I know, ALL registered GLOs are managed through a central Greek Life office affiliate with the school. So at the campus level there will be a central oversight function of some sort.

When I was in school- we used the term "IFC" to refer to that office since just about every fraternity was an IFC organization, but now that there are large numbers of GLOs operating under their own councils it is important to note that IFC is actually something at the international level for some GLOs and it is not really up to any one fraternity to try and unify it with other councils. I don't see the value in that unless everyone wants it- and there is no reason for Beta to work towards it that I can see.

Different GLOs have different structures and needs from a national governing council. NPHC organizations have very different recruitment policies than IFC groups- and I do not see any benefit in trying to have them under one council and one set of unified rules.

As for what Beta is doing at campuses- I see that largely as an issue for a given chapter at a given school.

GF can and should provide incentives (such as RTS) to encourage chapters to align their own rush efforts to attract good candidates, but it is very dangerous to start incentivizing or requiring rush efforts that are based on personal criteria (i.e. race, religion, nationality etc.) It is one thing to support scholastic excellence- but quite another to try and force some kind of diversity (which is hard to define anyway) when that is something that naturally has to be largely reflected by a given student population interested in being in a fraternity from which rush candidates are selected.

It is up to alumni of each chapter to offer guidance and suggestions when such things are welcomed, and then you go from there.

I think I understand your advocacy and in the grand scheme of things the sooner people get to know the real world and how to get along with everyone the better- but you really cannot use that thought to force rush policies on a chapter. And most chapters are going to be very reluctant to push rush-related views on another chapter since they know that will open them up to the same kind of intrusion.

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

I hope you don't mind me crashing....

Not at all- you made some very good points. I know it varies by forum, but I hope I speak for all Betas in saying anyone is welcome to comment on anything posted here.

As long as Beta ritual or personal information is not revealed, and as long as things remain civil- I don't ever plan to edit or delete anything posted by anybody (Beta or not) on this forum.

[Oldest_Pledge]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

I hope you don't mind me crashing.....

Not at all. I greatly appreciate your perspective.

Originally Posted by Senusret I

I, for one, am all about the freedom of association. I believe that if there is an interest in NIC fraternities (or their peers) to colonize at an HBCU, that's a good thing.

I am glad to hear that my suggestion is not absolutley repulsive.

Originally Posted by Senusret I

...I'd like to just say that any organization that targets HBCUs OR that is investigating an interest group at an HBCU must absolutely play close attention to the culture of the school.

I agree 100%.

Originally Posted by Senusret I

You've got to KNOW the campus. Are all five NPHC fraternities already on campus and performing well? Is one organization on suspension? Which ones are active?

Again, I agree. And I feel that Beta Theta Pi would perform due diligence before it approached any HBCU.

And as for the rest of your post....Again, every point is valid.

I was wondering if my fraternity had looked at the possibility of expanding at an HBCU. I am also wondering if any HBCU have approached other fraternities about coming to their campuses.

[a.e.B.O.T.]

Originally Posted by Oldest_Pledge

I was wondering if my fraternity had looked at the possibility of expanding at an HBCU. I am also wondering if any HBCU have approached other fraternities about coming to their campuses.

I have thought about this myself, and there is TONS of scholarly work done on the subject... My biggest fear about approaching HBCUs is that of rejection. We may get accepted by the college, but we still need founding fathers. There were 2 fraternities on my campus after Beta that tried to enter our campus, and both stopped within a year because they couldnt get the numbers to truly get started. Those fraternities became a laughing stock, and I don't want to see Beta. If we do go into a HBCU, I hope that there is student interest!