Men and unplanned pregnancies

Honeykiss1974 · #1 03-09-2006, 12:40 AM

Male activists want 'say' in unplanned pregnancy

Lawsuit seeks right to decline financial responsibility for kids

Wednesday, March 8, 2006; Posted: 9:23 p.m. EST (02:23 GMT)

NEW YORK (AP) -- Contending that women have more options than they do in the event of an unintended pregnancy, men's rights activists are mounting a long shot legal campaign aimed at giving them the chance to opt out of financial responsibility for raising a child.

The National Center for Men has prepared a lawsuit -- nicknamed Roe v. Wade for Men -- to be filed Thursday in U.S. District Court in Michigan on behalf of a 25-year-old computer programmer ordered to pay child support for his ex-girlfriend's daughter.

The suit addresses the issue of male reproductive rights, contending that lack of such rights violates the U.S. Constitution's equal protection clause.

The gist of the argument: If a pregnant woman can choose among abortion, adoption or raising a child, a man involved in an unintended pregnancy should have the choice of declining the financial responsibilities of fatherhood.

Read The Rest Here

So what do you think?

hijack/
I know this is a serious topic but that cat has me ROFTL!
end hijack/

Rudey · #2 03-09-2006, 12:42 AM

Absolutely

-Rudey

PiKA2001 · #3 03-09-2006, 12:49 AM

I don't think that this is going to bring about any change in the way these things work. He should have pulled out, no glove no love, etc...

James · #4 03-09-2006, 03:58 AM

I don't think he will win, but I think its a good argument.

The man can't force her to have an abortion, nor can he easily stop her, I know there are cases where he has, but they are rare.

Nor can he force her to put the child up for adoption. In fact, there is an economic incentive for her not to put the child up for adoption if she can get him to pay.

kstar · #5 03-09-2006, 05:40 AM

I hope they win. I think that a man should have the right to choose whether or not he wants to be involved in his offsprings life, the way a woman does. I think this decision should be at birth, not if a man is getting a divorce or if he has previously supported and shown interest in the child. I'm sorry women, but there are too many of us that oops a man into a baby, those that list men that aren't the father on the birth certificate, and those that look on child support as a punishment for their ex. If we are going to truely be equal, we need to stop having the law "protect" us and "punish" them.

Likewise, I don't think it is just when a man seeks an injunction against a woman to stop her from aborting his child. Basically it all boils down to this:

The right to be or not to be a parent is a personal choice, and no one should be able to force that decision on anyone else.

AlphaFrog · #6 03-09-2006, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by James
Nor can he force her to put the child up for adoption. In fact, there is an economic incentive for her not to put the child up for adoption if she can get him to pay.

I do the personnel stuff for my office, and I'm also a mom, and trust me, there's absolutly NO economic incentive. The child support that the women recieve probably barely covers the cost of food for the child (especially infants when you have to buy formula). Unless the father is a doctor or lawyer - your statement is absolutely not true. If anything, adoption is a bigger economic incentive - many couples would pay a lot of $ for a child, especially a newborn.

valkyrie · #7 03-09-2006, 12:22 PM

Personally, I agree that a man should be able to decline responsibility for a child he doesn't want to have. That said, I don't think it will ever happen.

OhioCentaur · #8 03-09-2006, 12:35 PM

What man regardless of if he wants it or not should deny his own seed? I do agree that the man should have equal rights as the female but would a man really want to deny or "disown" his own seed?

CarolinaCutie · #9 03-09-2006, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kstar
I hope they win. I think that a man should have the right to choose whether or not he wants to be involved in his offsprings life, the way a woman does. I think this decision should be at birth, not if a man is getting a divorce or if he has previously supported and shown interest in the child. I'm sorry women, but there are too many of us that oops a man into a baby, those that list men that aren't the father on the birth certificate, and those that look on child support as a punishment for their ex. If we are going to truely be equal, we need to stop having the law "protect" us and "punish" them.

Likewise, I don't think it is just when a man seeks an injunction against a woman to stop her from aborting his child. Basically it all boils down to this:

The right to be or not to be a parent is a personal choice, and no one should be able to force that decision on anyone else.

Maybe I'm starting an argument that I don't really have the energy to partake in but... a woman does not have the choice to be involved in the life of her offspring. She IS involved, whether she chooses to parent, abort, or place through adoption. Abortion often has long-term physical, emotional, and mental consequences, that the father will usually not experience. Once you're pregnant, you are officially involved.

However, it's comforting to hear that you all see the unborn child as a unique biological individual comprised of DNA from both the mother and father, thus giving the father an equal choice in your minds. I frequently hear the argument that the unborn child is simply a part of the woman's body, thus giving her the right to do what she chooses with it.

honeychile · #10 03-09-2006, 12:40 PM

I'm rather torn here. I'm staunchly pro-life, yet I know of a psycho woman who swears that an acquaintance of mine is the father of her unborn baby. She's demanding marriage or maintenance. I think he's crazy to consider either without a paternity test.

So, I suppose the best I could say is that I'm with the man - IF he signs away all visitation or other rights to the child.

Maybe - and that's a big maybe! - maybe women who try to trap a guy into marriage will have second thoughts, if they know he can walk away, free and clear. Yet, I worry about the further povertization of still more women - those who had a oops! experience and don't believe in abortion. One can only hope that they would see the light and give the child up for adoption.

jwright25 · #11 03-09-2006, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OhioCentaur
What man regardless of if he wants it or not should deny his own seed? I do agree that the man should have equal rights as the female but would a man really want to deny or "disown" his own seed?

If a woman chooses to have an abortion, is she not doing the same thing? If she aborts a pregnancy, is she not denying or disowning her own offspring/potential offspring? Why is the man any different from the woman here? She gets to choose but he doesn't. I agree that the well-being of the child is important, but if the mother knew she wouldn't be able to provide all on her own, and knew the father didn't want anything to do with the child, why would she keep the pregnancy and keep the child?

This is an interesting debate and very similar to one I was having with a coworker yesterday! We were discussing whether or not a man should have a say in an unwanted pregnancy. I know of a couple who had an unexpected pregnancy last summer. He wanted to have the baby, she didn't. She had the abortion. If the man is willing to raise the child, and the sex was consensual, why does he have no rights? I guess it all goes back to the question of whether or not the embryo/fetus/unborn child is just a part of the woman's body or something that is actually alive.

I'm sure we'll be hearing more about it with the new laws in South Dakota.

OhioCentaur · #12 03-09-2006, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jwright25
If a woman chooses to have an abortion, is she not doing the same thing? If she aborts a pregnancy, is she not denying or disowning her own offspring/potential offspring? Why is the man any different from the woman here? She gets to choose but he doesn't. I agree that the well-being of the child is important, but if the mother knew she wouldn't be able to provide all on her own, and knew the father didn't want anything to do with the child, why would she keep the pregnancy and keep the child?

This is an interesting debate and very similar to one I was having with a coworker yesterday! We were discussing whether or not a man should have a say in an unwanted pregnancy. I know of a couple who had an unexpected pregnancy last summer. He wanted to have the baby, she didn't. She had the abortion. If the man is willing to raise the child, and the sex was consensual, why does he have no rights? I guess it all goes back to the question of whether or not the embryo/fetus/unborn child is just a part of the woman's body or something that is actually alive.

I'm sure we'll be hearing more about it with the new laws in South Dakota.

I'm not excusing abortion at all... i'm a strong supporter of pro life... My only problem is at some point someone has to step up and accept responsibility. If you know you cant take care of a kid, then dont have sex... PERIOD. Stop populating the world if you cant provide for those you bring into the world. Its that simple.

That or all you half assed men who sleep with anything that spreads should get fixed so you cant reproduce. My focus is on men, i cant really speak on the female side of things... other than if you know your not ready then dont lay down.

jubilance1922 · #13 03-09-2006, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jwright25
If a woman chooses to have an abortion, is she not doing the same thing? If she aborts a pregnancy, is she not denying or disowning her own offspring/potential offspring? Why is the man any different from the woman here? She gets to choose but he doesn't. I agree that the well-being of the child is important, but if the mother knew she wouldn't be able to provide all on her own, and knew the father didn't want anything to do with the child, why would she keep the pregnancy and keep the child?

This is an interesting debate and very similar to one I was having with a coworker yesterday! We were discussing whether or not a man should have a say in an unwanted pregnancy. I know of a couple who had an unexpected pregnancy last summer. He wanted to have the baby, she didn't. She had the abortion. If the man is willing to raise the child, and the sex was consensual, why does he have no rights? I guess it all goes back to the question of whether or not the embryo/fetus/unborn child is just a part of the woman's body or something that is actually alive.

I'm sure we'll be hearing more about it with the new laws in South Dakota.

There will never be an answer to the debate, because of the fact that women are the only ones who can carry a child. This would all be a lot easier if a woman who didn't want to have the child could somehow "give" the fetus to the man who did want the child....sci-fi I know...

Since we have a situation where only the woman is responsible for the fetus for 9 months, and the man can decide at any time during thost 9 months that he doesn't want the child after all and walk away, we have quite a dilemma. I personally feel that the woman has a bigger say, because she has a greater responsibility in the matter, in terms of having to go through with the pregnancy, alter her lifestyle (no smoking, drinking, etc.), and then may end up being the sole provider for the child.

A friend of mine once said "Maybe men should make their potential sexual partners sign a waiver before sex saying that if she ends up pregnant he is not responsible for the child in any way." I wonder how that would affect things.

Then again, both sexes could be more discriminating in their choice of a sexual partner.

Phasad1913 · #14 03-09-2006, 01:11 PM

I think I said this on anther thread at some point but, again, there are definitely inequities in how men and women are treated when it comes to children. The initial inequity came about, of course, when women were deemed the only ones to be able to have children. In society, though, we have to develop some way to allow for men to have a say in what happens with his child also to counteract this imbalance. It is just unfair that men, as someone else pointed out, can't force a woman either to have a baby or abort it. Once its born, she can go after him for all kinds of money, even if she AND the guy were both irresponsible in protecting themself and preventing the pregnancy. If the society is unwilling/unable or incapable to prevent people from engaging in unprotected sex, then accommodations must be made to each person when it comes to how a pregnancy and subsequent childbirth should be handled. I think if the guy really wants an abortion or does not want the child, he should not be forced to participate, financially or otherwise. If the government's position is that forcing a man to pay for an unwanted child is protecting the interests of the child, I don't buy it because the child can be even more damaged if its father reluctantly pays money and does nothing else for him or resents its mother and beats her AND THE CHILD up. I'd rather take the chance of the woman finding another father for the child (stepfather, for example) and bringing the kid up in love and peacefulness than forcing a bad father to stay in the picture. That is an extreme example, but the point mainly is that men should have their say, not only for the sake of his equal rights protection under the Constitution, but also for the best interest of the child.

AlphaFrog · #15 03-09-2006, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OhioCentaur
I'm not excusing abortion at all... i'm a strong supporter of pro life... My only problem is at some point someone has to step up and accept responsibility. If you know you cant take care of a kid, then dont have sex... PERIOD. Stop populating the world if you cant provide for those you bring into the world. Its that simple.

That or all you half assed men who sleep with anything that spreads should get fixed so you cant reproduce. My focus is on men, i cant really speak on the female side of things... other than if you know your not ready then dont lay down.

**BIG STANDING OVATION**