The Alito Abortion Thread

Kevin · #1 11-02-2005, 10:54 AM

Quote:

The reason that this becomes the issue that determines whether a number of people support a particular Supreme Court judge is because it's the most controversial and emotional issue that this country has faced in the last few decades. There have been other crises and issues but they all went away eventually. This one hasn't. It's a highly charged issue and frankly, some women are scared to death that their rights will be taken away and they will be forced to get dangerous, illegal abortions that can threaten their lives if they decide they don't want to be a parent. That makes it a big deal to many women of child bearing age.

We're talking about spousal notification, not the breaking of the seventh seal. We're not even talking about spousal permission. Anyhow, it's been ruled on, and as far as the law is concerned, you're right and I'm wrong.

For the record, in cases where we're dealing with a fetus that is not viable outside the womb (through artificial life support or otherwise), I'm pro-choice. After that, however, I have to seriously question the morality of the procedure (in case you care where I stand on this issue).

Xylochick216 · #2 11-02-2005, 11:37 AM

What about women who are being abused? Many women are sexually and physically abused by their partners/spouses. If a woman was to become pregnant by this man, should she have to tell him and face more physical/emotional abuse from the man? Definitely not. That's the problem with that legislation--it's very finite. I read somewhere (not remembering where, sorry) that if this ever became law and a woman needed to get an abortion in the instance stated above, it could take months in the courts, making the woman suffer through an unwanted pregnancy and become emotionally scarred herself as well as make the fetus too far developed for an abortion, thus making abortions practically non-existant. I think that's crappy. When men have a uterus and have to suffer through 9 months of pregnancy with an unwanted child, then maybe they can try to make laws about women's bodies. Until then, I wish people would stop judging people so horribly for getting them. I personally think abortion as birth control is pretty crappy, but when you have a president and other legislators who don't want to teach about birth control, then you have unwanted pregnancies.

(Sorry, I'm rambling, it's been a long morning).

jubilance1922 · #3 11-02-2005, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ktsnake
For the record, in cases where we're dealing with a fetus that is not viable outside the womb (through artificial life support or otherwise), I'm pro-choice.

I'd like to kiss you, because you just answered a question that I've been asking the pro-lifers for a long time.

irishpipes · #4 11-02-2005, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jubilance1922
the pro-lifers

I don't believe that there is a defined group of pro-lifers. I am sure if you asked questions of different people who consider themselves pro-life, you would get different answers. Just as there are varying degrees of pro-choice (those who would support early abortions but not partial-birth abortions, for example), there are also varying degrees of pro-life positions.

Exquisite5 · #5 11-02-2005, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jubilance1922
I'd like to kiss you, because you just answered a question that I've been asking the pro-lifers for a long time.

I like the way you worded that as well. I think you adequately summed up my beliefs.

Rudey · #6 01-12-2006, 02:00 PM

Views and opinions can change in 20 years. I am confused by Durbin's comment.

Durbin (2006): "You have refused to refute that statement in the 1985 job application. I'm concerned. Many people will leave this hearing with a question, that maybe you will be the . . . deciding vote" in a decision to overturn Roe. http://blogs.washingtonpost.com/camp..._durbin_1.html

Durbin (1985): "I believe we should end abortion on demand, and at every opportunity I have translated this belief into votes in the House of Representatives. . . . Also, notwithstanding the result in Webster, I continue to believe the Supreme Court's decision in Roe v. Wade should be reversed." http://blogs.washingtonpost.com/camp..._durbin_1.html

http://www.nrlc.org/Judicial/Durbin/...ReverseRoe.pdf

-Rudey

jubilance1922 · #7 01-12-2006, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by irishpipes
I don't believe that there is a defined group of pro-lifers. I am sure if you asked questions of different people who consider themselves pro-life, you would get different answers. Just as there are varying degrees of pro-choice (those who would support early abortions but not partial-birth abortions, for example), there are also varying degrees of pro-life positions.

I'm super late, but I just read this...

I don't feel there are "varying degrees of pro-choice". If someone is TRULY pro-choice, then they feel that a woman (and her health care provider and father of the child) should be making the decision whether or not to CHOOSE to have an abortion. Being pro-choice is not saying "I don't think abortion is murder". I know women who feel that abortion is murder and would never choose that outcome for themselves, but they recognize that what's best for them isn't the best decision for ALL women. That to me is the distinction between pro-choicers and pro-lifers. To me, pro-lifers feel like they have a right to exercise their personal opinions over my life, while pro-choicers realize that everyone should have the right to make their own decisions, just like we have a choice on where to live, what to wear, and what religion to believe in.

I'm ready for the flood gates of people to argue with me now.

hoosier · #8 01-12-2006, 03:14 PM

When Alito joins the court, the split will be 6-3 with conservatives in control.

If a suitable case reaches the court, Roe v Wade may be overturned.

This doesn't end abortions, and doesn't inflate the stock of Acme Coat Hangers Inc. or Back Alley Womens Med Clinic, LLC.

It sends the ability to make abortion laws back to the 50 states, and each can make the laws they choose.

Before Roe v Wade, some states allowed abortions, some didn't, and some did with restrictions. A controversy then was advertising for abortion clinics, and some local school boards, principals, college trustees, etc., threw fits trying to keep clinic ads out of school and college newspapers.

A prediction:

Bush voting states = we don't like abortions
Non Bush voting states = we love abortions
Alabama - death penalty for abortions
MA, MN, NY - get an abortion, collect $500

AlphaFrog · #9 01-12-2006, 03:21 PM

I have a question for you jubilance...

Do you recognize that there is a difference between an abortion at 2 months, or 8 months, or even partial-birth abortion (the baby is halfway born and they go in with a vaccumm and suck out the brains...well, at least that's one method), or is it all just abortion to you, regardless of the state of the baby?

Rudey · #10 01-12-2006, 03:50 PM

Too bad that is just your opinion and not reality.

The reality is that much of the pro-choice movement does not want to allow for late-term abortions. It's not simply the ability to make any decision you want. The word "Choice" was just a PR move given that being pro-abortion just sounds so darned negative.

-Rudey

Quote:

Originally posted by jubilance1922
I'm super late, but I just read this...

I don't feel there are "varying degrees of pro-choice". If someone is TRULY pro-choice, then they feel that a woman (and her health care provider and father of the child) should be making the decision whether or not to CHOOSE to have an abortion. Being pro-choice is not saying "I don't think abortion is murder". I know women who feel that abortion is murder and would never choose that outcome for themselves, but they recognize that what's best for them isn't the best decision for ALL women. That to me is the distinction between pro-choicers and pro-lifers. To me, pro-lifers feel like they have a right to exercise their personal opinions over my life, while pro-choicers realize that everyone should have the right to make their own decisions, just like we have a choice on where to live, what to wear, and what religion to believe in.

I'm ready for the flood gates of people to argue with me now.

jubilance1922 · #11 01-12-2006, 05:10 PM

^^^

"Pro-abortion" doesn't seem negative to me. Oh well, I'm just a woman, so I guess I don't know what I'm talking about.

Rudey · #12 01-12-2006, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jubilance1922
^^^

"Pro-abortion" doesn't seem negative to me. Oh well, I'm just a woman, so I guess I don't know what I'm talking about.

What does being a woman have to do with what you know and the discussion? Did someone say because you were a woman you didn't know what you were talking about? Are only women allowed to join the pro-life/pro-choice camps?

-Rudey

hoosier · #13 01-12-2006, 06:38 PM

Appalling as the spectacle may be, though, it is distinctively ineffective politically, not least because Kennedy himself is such a ludicrous figure. As blogger Dean Barnett notes:

In the public's eyes, it is now Ted Kennedy who purports to judge the character of Sam Alito. Ted Kennedy--the heavy drinking guy whose immorality actually has a body-count. Liberals could argue that Kennedy has put his life together and now is an admirable lion in winter, but the indisputable fact is that west of Cambridge, Ted Kennedy is a joke, someone who has been consistent fodder for late night talk show hosts for almost four decades. Obviously if this thing comes down to Kennedy versus Alito, the Kennedy side loses.

"Used with permission from OpinionJournal.com, a web site from Dow Jones & Company, Inc."

Tom Earp · #14 01-12-2006, 07:08 PM

Doesnt it depend on the timing and situation of the person!

Of course all of the Poloticitions are pure as the driven snow!

I really dont know if Alito is the supreme person to be placed on the supreme court, but who is?

Alot depends on His interpretation of THE LAW as it reads and The Consitution as it also reads.

What I love is these do rigthous asshats who are prue who decide on Who who Be Who!

NinjaPoodle · #15 01-12-2006, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jubilance1922
I'm super late, but I just read this...

I don't feel there are "varying degrees of pro-choice". If someone is TRULY pro-choice, then they feel that a woman (and her health care provider and father of the child) should be making the decision whether or not to CHOOSE to have an abortion. Being pro-choice is not saying "I don't think abortion is murder". I know women who feel that abortion is murder and would never choose that outcome for themselves, but they recognize that what's best for them isn't the best decision for ALL women. That to me is the distinction between pro-choicers and pro-lifers. To me, pro-lifers feel like they have a right to exercise their personal opinions over my life, while pro-choicers realize that everyone should have the right to make their own decisions, just like we have a choice on where to live, what to wear, and what religion to believe in.

I'm ready for the flood gates of people to argue with me now.

Agreed

Quote:

Originally posted by AlphaFrog
I have a question for you jubilance...

Do you recognize that there is a difference between an abortion at 2 months, or 8 months, or even partial-birth abortion (the baby is halfway born and they go in with a vaccumm and suck out the brains...well, at least that's one method), or is it all just abortion to you, regardless of the state of the baby?

The fact of the matter is pro choice means, REGARDLESS of how you (or I ) feel, being in the position to choose either or, it's as simple as that. The degrees of abortion you mention are a sub-catagory of abortion.