Even Stupider Suspension

[AlphaFrog]

Spanish at school translates to suspension
Controversy caused by Kansas City incident reflects national debate

Updated: 6:36 a.m. ET Dec. 9, 2005
KANSAS CITY, Kan. - Most of the time, 16-year-old Zach Rubio converses in clear, unaccented American teen-speak, a form of English in which the three most common words are "like," "whatever" and "totally." But Zach is also fluent in his dad's native language, Spanish -- and that's what got him suspended from school.

Story

[33girl]

While I don't believe in teaching classes in Spanish (unless it's Spanish class, duh) this is ridiculous. What if some of the kids who take French were speaking it outside the classroom?

[AlphaFrog]

[Tangent]
In the county I live in (Union, NC) they talked about starting in kindergarten w/teaching 1/2 day in English and 1/2 day in Spanish and kids would be required to participate in both. I don't see anything wrong with that, as it helps the English speakers as much as the Spanish speakers...being that it's becoming clear that in about 40 years you will NEED to be able to speak Spanish.

[/Tangent]

[AchtungBaby80]

Originally posted by 33girl
While I don't believe in teaching classes in Spanish (unless it's Spanish class, duh) this is ridiculous. What if some of the kids who take French were speaking it outside the classroom?

I completely agree. If it was outside of class, so what???

[Coramoor]

Originally posted by AlphaFrog
[Tangent]
In the county I live in (Union, NC) they talked about starting in kindergarten w/teaching 1/2 day in English and 1/2 day in Spanish and kids would be required to participate in both. I don't see anything wrong with that, as it helps the English speakers as much as the Spanish speakers...being that it's becoming clear that in about 40 years you will NEED to be able to speak Spanish.

[/Tangent]

The only reason that would be true is because people with this point of view will make it true.

Making our kids learn spanish in school so they can communicate with spanish speakers that don't speak english. Just something else that pisses me off.

[Kevin]

Change is inevitable. It does piss me off that we cater more to immigrant groups than we used to. The melting pot turning into the salad bowl and all that.

[AGDee]

Here's my interpretation of what I'm reading, based on what I learned working with adolescents and reading between the lines because the school is not allowed to share stuff about the students because of privacy rules.

1. This is an "Alternative High School". The only alternative high schools I have ever heard of in Michigan were always for the kids who were suspended/expelled or dropped out of regular school. The kids there generally aren't angels.

2. Often, kids on the psych units where I've worked would make threats to others or swear in other languages so that staff wouldn't know what they were saying. They were quite surprised that I knew all the cuss words in Spanish.

3. I think that given the above information, they had similar things happening at this school and therefore said "No speaking foreign languages", so that the teachers could know and understand what was being said.

4. I also think that the school's limited ability to share more information with the media makes them look like idiots because they can't defend themselves, but it's the way it is. Hospitals often face the same dilemma with public relations.

So, I think there's more to this than one kid speaking Spanish one time and getting suspended for it.

[KSigkid]

Originally posted by AlphaFrog
[Tangent]
In the county I live in (Union, NC) they talked about starting in kindergarten w/teaching 1/2 day in English and 1/2 day in Spanish and kids would be required to participate in both. I don't see anything wrong with that, as it helps the English speakers as much as the Spanish speakers...being that it's becoming clear that in about 40 years you will NEED to be able to speak Spanish.

[/Tangent]

While I don't agree with the suspension, I also don't agree with your county starting this new policy. If it is that much of an issue, they should set up an optional time for students to learn a new language.

However, this is a time when kids should be learning to speak English, i.e. learning the proper nouns, verbs, sentence formation, etc. It takes long enough to learn that, without muddying the picture by forcing these children to learn another language.

Once again, having an optional program is fine, but I don't think it should be instituted as a part of the school day in that way.

[RACooper]

Originally posted by KSigkid
While I don't agree with the suspension, I also don't agree with your county starting this new policy. If it is that much of an issue, they should set up an optional time for students to learn a new language.

However, this is a time when kids should be learning to speak English, i.e. learning the proper nouns, verbs, sentence formation, etc. It takes long enough to learn that, without muddying the picture by forcing these children to learn another language.

Once again, having an optional program is fine, but I don't think it should be instituted as a part of the school day in that way.

I honestly don't think that having the kids in J & S Kindergarten having 1/2 & 1/2 classes is a bad idea... after all I took the same thing (except English & French).

It's just meant to give some sort of grounding in the bare basics - ie. what is an "apple"... not to teach grammar; that's usually for later grades.

[Optimist Prime]

If you live in the continuious U.S., and do not speak Spainish, and are making no effort to learn it, you are not preparing very well for the future.

Although, its not like they killed him for it and then got off b/c of the "he's an immagrant and not white, so who cares?" rule, that is in effect for Henrico County, VA.

[Rudey]

If we reject Spanish in schools and public areas, it won't be a problem in the future and people can stop referring to it as inevitable.

-Rudey

[AlphaFrog]

You might be able to outlaw Spanish in schools, but not in public areas.

[honeychile]

Originally posted by AGDee
Here's my interpretation of what I'm reading, based on what I learned working with adolescents and reading between the lines because the school is not allowed to share stuff about the students because of privacy rules.

1. This is an "Alternative High School". The only alternative high schools I have ever heard of in Michigan were always for the kids who were suspended/expelled or dropped out of regular school. The kids there generally aren't angels.

2. Often, kids on the psych units where I've worked would make threats to others or swear in other languages so that staff wouldn't know what they were saying. They were quite surprised that I knew all the cuss words in Spanish.

3. I think that given the above information, they had similar things happening at this school and therefore said "No speaking foreign languages", so that the teachers could know and understand what was being said.

4. I also think that the school's limited ability to share more information with the media makes them look like idiots because they can't defend themselves, but it's the way it is. Hospitals often face the same dilemma with public relations.

So, I think there's more to this than one kid speaking Spanish one time and getting suspended for it.

I'm inclined to agree with AGDee on this, for several reasons:

1) Rules are rules. If "no speaking a foreign language" is a rule, then he should not have been doing so.

2) Alternative Schools means the same thing here - I doubt that this is the first time this kid has been in trouble.

3) Saying that you're going to fiscally handicap yourself in 20 years by not learning Spanish is just an out. They've said that about Russian, they've said that about Japanese. That famous "they" seem to have been wrong both times. The official language of the United States is English!

I am all for learning other languages - I have taken four other languages, am semi-fluent in two, and have picked up enough of three other languages to at least communicate. Actually, I would like to see everyone know at least two languages, from kindergarten on up. But! There is a time and place for everything, and if this school says no to other languages outside of class, then so be it.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally posted by honeychile
The official language of the United States is English!

The United States HAS no official language. LOOK IT UP!

[Kimmie1913]

Having grown up in a private school (k-12) and knowing how they compete, here, schools that teach languages starting in kindergarten are among the best in the state. All of the top private schools make sure to point out that they begin teaching foreign languages in kindergarten. Children who learn other languages while learning English tend to be better at English and learn another language better than people who do not begin learning another language until middle or high school. I think it is advantageous to the child to begin learning Spanish (or any other language, for that matter) in kindergarten.

I think the article is on point that there is a significant amount of hostility in this country towards immigrants and Spanish speaking people, immigrant or not.

And of course, the lawyer in me is mad at the school for not having the policy in writing. I think the safety (teachers need to know what is being said) could be a strong enough public policy argument for the rule but you have to ACTUALLY make it a rule, put it in writing, put people on notice and then you are in a better position to enforce it.