Let's Talk About the AI Forum

[WCUgirl]

Alright, this thread is being started as a place where we can politely generate ideas to better streamline the AI forum until John can resolve the major issues. We're all smart people -- perhaps we can put our heads together and come up with an idea that will resolve most of the issues.

In another thread, kddani said this:

Originally posted by kddani
...Obviously, as a moderator of a forum, users will look to him or her for advice about the subject area of the forum. For instance, going to me for questions about KD b/c I mod the KD forum.

When the AI subforum was created, no one realized what it would become. At the time I don't think we thought it would be a big deal or very controversial.

Well, things change and evolve. Just like our founders don't do things the way we do now, organizations need to grow and evolve, and so does GC.

The fact that people would see Mr. Earp as someone who would be knowledgeable about the AI process because he is a moderator of the forum is a somewhat dangerous thing. He has, on numerous occasion, dispursed misleading and blatantly INcorrect information.

The majority of PNAI's are females pursuing NPC membership. Mr. Earp, as a male member of an IFC fraternity, is in absolutely no place to give information or advice on the membership selection processes of NPC groups.

It scares me to think what information he has told GC'ers via PM, because he's publicly posted things that were blatantly wrong. He has refused to disclose what he has told PNAMs who have PMed him.

I think it's a valid concern of all NPC members to know and keep abreast of what information is being given out about their membership selection processes. Membership selection is a private, ritualistic part of our groups. None of us want false information being given out about it, and I think that's why so many of us feel so strongly on the topic...

I said this in response:

Originally posted by AXiD670
The problem with assigning an NPC member as a mod to this forum is she's not going to know about every GLO's AI process. I think someone touched on this briefly in another thread -- we'd have to have 26 separate mods just to cover the NPC groups.

What if we had a post stickied to the top of the AI forum saying something to the effect of, "The following GC members are willing to answer questions you have regarding the AI process for their particular GLO." or "If you have questions about a particular GLO's AI process, PM a member of that GLO here on GC, or contact the appropriate HQ." or something simply saying that Tom and LXAAlum do not have the knowledge to answer GLO-specific questions. Does that make sense?

kddani responded with this:

Originally posted by kddani
See, this is sort of the problem with the AI forum, lol, there's no real best solution.

You're absolutely right about an NPC member only knowing about their org. I think that may be why some of us have campaigned that it should be someone who's been through AI, so they at least understand the general process. But you're right, every group does it differently.

Another problem of having a list of people willing to help with AI questions is that many of our HQ's aren't too keen on us "representing" our org in that sort of capacity. It's different than the help with recs thread, b/c it's a different sort of subject matter. So saying XYZalum is willing to help people interested in XYZ AI may get XYZAlum in trouble.

And to make it all even more complicated, different alumnae associations may do things different way within the same org!

I received the following suggestion via PM (emphasis mine):

"In addition of having "go to's" for AI, the forum needs to take a page from the NPHC sororities regarding pursuit. Any questions for sponsorship need to be taken directly first to the said sorority of the PNAI's pursuit. Period. If a woman wants to know how to AI into ABC then they should get off of their butts and email the national website. It's an email -- not the Bataan death march. How about them using the search button on GC? I'm sure it gets lonely sometimes.

Although I appreciate the amount of online handholding that goes on in threads, that's where the buck should stop. There should be a list similiar to Kelly's that let's PNAIs know it's not easy and to have their ducks in a row.

PNAIs have to remember that mutual selection occurs at the local level first. Octavia Online may be a sister to the group of her dreams but Octavia may not live in PNAI's area.

The majority of NPCs I believe have taken any AI information out of public arena. That's cool -- it's their business. If ABC doesn't give you the answer you wanted to hear, tough toejam. Either join ABC or move on.

If after the experience the new PNAI wants to out the organizations she's contacted, that's fine."

(I wish I could take credit for it being put so eloquently, but I can't.)

Are there any comments about the above suggestions? Other than calling for a new moderator or deleting the entire forum, what additional suggestions do you have?

[Sistermadly]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

I think that this forum is dangerous because people are using it instead of relying on official channels to gather information. People on message boards are (relatively) anonymous, and unless you're willing to do some super sleuthing, there's no way to know for certain if the person who's sharing information is actually a member of the organization they claim to represent.

When I started the AI process, I posted my AI thread in this forum because I thought the information there might be helpful to someone who was going through the process. Now that all has been revealed through the fullness of time, I wish I'd never done it. It has nothing to do with being a hypocrite, or being two-faced, or forgetting where I came from. It has everything to do with the viral nature of this message board and the communication contained herein and how the Executive Offices of the Fraternities/Sororities here have no means to control this communication.

So now that I've said all that long-winded hoo-hah (), I'll just say this:

* I think this forum should be limited to listing a group of Men's Fraternities/Women's Sororities that have alumni initiation processes.

* It should not tell people how to contact these organizations, especially not in open conversation.

* It should not be a clearinghouse for successful AI stories. People read them and think that these anecdotes are the law of the land - and they're quite simply not.

* If alumni/ae initiates wish to have their names listed as "successful" candidates, then that should stand.

* There should be some sort of "sticky" message that appears at the top of the forum that answers the Frequently Asked Questions that we see again and again.

* If fraternity/sorority members wish to help potential initiates connect with their local alumni/ae chapters, then do it via PM - not in an open forum.

Gee, does it show I've thought a whole lot about this?

[midwesterngirl]

Any questions for sponsorship need to be taken directly first to the said sorority of the PNAI's pursuit. Period. If a woman wants to know how to AI into ABC then they should get off of their butts and email the national website.

This really is the solution right there. If they do this,then it involves no one on GC unless they meet as a result of being from the PNAI's area. This is the way that many of us very first AI's did it. There was no online handholding and guidance so to speak. We just did what we had to do. Quite frankly, and this is strictly my opinion the online handholding gets a little tedious afterwhile and honestly it is what makes me think a candidate might be a little suspect as someone who isn't looking for sisterhood but is just looking for a method of personal validation. Once again,that is just strictly my opinion

The fact that many organizations have chosen to move their information from public to private access is telling to me. It makes me wonder if they are going to adher more to the invitation only method of years ago. So perhaps with that in mind,it would be best to just refer any questions to the respective HQs. Maybe sticky a link to each org's HQ at the top of the forum.

[WCUgirl]

Okay, currently the threads that are stickied to the top of the AI forum are this one and this one. I think that second one that Tom posted would be a GREAT one to edit and post a rules/FAQ section. What about something like the following:

AI Forum Advice for PNAIs

*Alumni Initiation is not done by every GLO. (List of women's/men's GLOs that have an AI process goes here.)

*Any questions regarding the AI process or AI sponsorship need to first be taken directly to the said GLO of your pursuit. Period. If you want to know how to AI into ABC then you should contact the national organization. Finding the contact information is easy -- do a search online using a search engine such as Google.

*Remember that mutual selection occurs at the local level first. If fraternity/sorority members wish to help PNAIs connect with a local alumni/ae chapter, it should be done via PM -- NOT in an open forum.

*There are hundreds of AI threads here that have so much information in them -- there is no need to ask anyone here what to do to start your journey. Please utilize the SEARCH function located at the top of the screen.

*Please realize that if you use GreekChat to contact a member of the GLO you are pursuing, you are doing so at your own risk. People on message boards are (relatively) anonymous, and unless you're willing to do some super sleuthing, there's no way to know for certain if the person who's sharing information is actually a member of the organization they claim to represent.

*Do NOT expect anyone on GreekChat to hold your hand throughout the AI process, unless you already know each other in real life (and, chances are, they still won't hold your hand).

*Realize that the success stories you read here are NOT the standard -- AI can be a long and difficult process.

[blueangel]

And, I've said this before, and I'll say it again....

This forum helped me more than I can express. I had already been a year or two into my AI journey, but had hit a stumbling block. I was very discouraged, and confused by the time I found GC.

This forum gave me some inspiring stories to read to keep my spirits up during the roller coaster ride. It also provided me with some contacts who helped me understand WHY things had stalled.

And, it provided me with a few people to PM with to ask, "I just heard from this person who said this... what do you think that means?". One of these people went above and beyond the call of duty, and found out exactly where the ball had been dropped. Once she sorted things out for me, I was initiated in a matter of months.

And yes, it was Navene's list that gave me some names to contact. I PM'd two-- one never answered, but the other put me in touch with someone from another GLO who had a lot of knowlege about AI. She, in turn, contacted a ZTA who she knew-- who was able to get things moving again.

I truly believe I would still be in PNAM purgatory had this forum not existed.

So.. the bottom line... I think the forum was perfectly fine and functional the way it was before it was attacked.

[Sistermadly]

AXiD670, I agree with all of your suggestions.

[doubleblue&gold]

I am in agreemnt that someone should moderate for the NPC groups that do AI. I have also disliked Mr. Earp making statements when he has no clue what he's talking about.

If those people going thru the process want to let us know about their membership in their new group---I'm all for it. I can understand how they might discuss their process and the frustrations or joys of going thru it.

Isn't that what all those young college students do? We don't tell them they can't write their rush stories, can't contact us, can't PM us or can't ask for recommendations. I always thoght it strange that people here would write a rec for someone they really know nothing about.

No, we shouldn't promise anything or "hold their hands" while hey go thru the AI process. But that should hold true for ALL potential members of our organizaions.

I do agree they should be directed to the organization they are interested in---both national and local. Let's face it, in the end, that's the only way they are ever going to be invited to join.

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by ariesrising
I think there should be something in the FAQ about it being up to sorority members to contact a potential AI via GC if they want to assist them on their journey; and a potential AI should not PM anyone regarding help on their journey unless a GC member has expressed they are open to being contacted like this.

That's a good idea. I just can't understand why a woman would need someone on GC to help her with her AI process.

[blueangel]

Originally posted by valkyrie
That's a good idea. I just can't understand why a woman would need someone on GC to help her with her AI process.

Please read my post above. I believe I've answered that question.

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by blueangel
Please read my post above. I believe I've answered that question.

I don't believe you did. Apparently we disagree on the appropriateness of getting someone from a message board, whom you've never met, involved with a real-life pursuit.

Let's just agree to disagree, 'k?

[midwesterngirl]

Originally posted by ariesrising
I think there should be something in the FAQ about it being up to sorority members to contact a potential AI via GC if they want to assist them on their journey; and a potential AI should not PM anyone regarding help on their journey unless a GC member has expressed they are open to being contacted like this.

Yes,this is a definite. I understand that there there are many who find these threads useful but ,in a nutshell, it should be up to the candidate who is wants to pursue AI,to take some initiative and contact the organization of her choice not a stranger on a message board.
In my mind that is the win win solution. That shows to me,that hey,this woman wants this because she is willing to get off her duff and do the work to get it. If nothing else,it shows a willingness to work and take charge.What is the point of initiating someone who isn't going to be willing to work for your organization. Anyone who isn't going to do anything for themselves,isn't going to do anything for your organization.

I am not sure why this point is not getting across to PNAI's but I know of at least 4 organizations on this board that have or had Nat'l officers who post. So it just goes to show that the people that you might be ticking off might be the very people that you need to impress. That is why discretion is so key.

[kddani]

Originally posted by blueangel
So.. the bottom line... I think the forum was perfectly fine and functional the way it was before it was attacked.

Again, have you read any of the posts? Do you care to address the factual evidence given to you of mishandling of the AI forum that gives concrete examples of how the forum was NOT fine before this latest rash of posts began? Or are you going to just ignore them b/c it "worked" for you and suited your purposes?

Maybe being a new initiate you don't quite understand b/c you've never been through it on the sorority side that membership selection is a private, ritualistic process. Do you want people who are not ZTAs giving out (false) information about ZTA's membership selection process?

[kddani]

Originally posted by midwesterngirl
[B] it should be up to the candidate who is wants to pursue AI,to take some initiative and contact the organization of her choice not a stranger on a message board.

Exactly. But I guess people want to take the easy, less intimidating road. Though a simple email certainly isn't the most difficult thing to do.

PNAMs want membership in an organization. They are seeking it, the org is not seeking them. If they want that, they need to make the effort to obtain it on their own, and not try to get someone to do a lot of the work for them and hold their hand. PNAMs are all adults, and if an adult cannot take the initiative to send an email or make a phone call, they likely aren't the kind of person that will be a strong member who contributes to the org. We want members who have initiative and who will get things done.

[Xylochick216]

Originally posted by blueangel
Please read my post above. I believe I've answered that question.

BlueAngel, people have told you repeatedly that your AI situation is completely different than most AIs. You were once a new member in ZTA, and that was where you wanted to AI. That's not the case for many of the people who come on here saying "Oh, I want to be in a sorority, someone tell me who to contact." It may have been helpful to you, and that's great, but the forum should NOT be a "how-to" for clueless people.

[Sistermadly]

Originally posted by kddani
Or are you going to just ignore them b/c it "worked" for you and suited your purposes?

I'm guessing this is what'll happen, kddani. *cough*