The Rapture - WTF?

[RACooper]

Right today I was watching the CBC covering the phenomenon of "The Rapture" in the US... basically trying to understand:
1) what it is exactly
2) why US Christian Fundamentalists are so enraptured with it (sorry I had to make the pun)
3) what the niche "Rapture" entertainment industry is pumping out ("Left Behind").

What I was wondering is how many of y'all believe in the rapture? and why?

Why is it more of a American phenomenon, than say in other "Christian" countries (or ones with significant Christian populations).


PS> The program even had a link to a "Rapture watch/news site"
http://www.raptureready.com/

[honeychile]

Reading the Book of Revelation will answer all of your questions. Plus, it's the only book of the Bible which has a blessing attached to it (Chapter 1).

[Honeykiss1974]

Honeychile pretty much covered it.

I wouldn't use the website you posted a resource, but go straight to the source itself -the bible. (www.biblegateway.com) The link in my signature also has a little information about it as well.

You probably don't hear much of it in other places simply because their media just isn't interested in it. But rest assure that the return of Jesus Christ isn't some new idea or phenomenon. Its always been there.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally posted by RACooper
Right today I was watching the CBC covering the phenomenon of "The Rapture" in the US... basically trying to understand:
1) what it is exactly
2) why US Christian Fundamentalists are so enraptured with it (sorry I had to make the pun)
3) what the niche "Rapture" entertainment industry is pumping out ("Left Behind").

What I was wondering is how many of y'all believe in the rapture? and why?

Why is it more of a American phenomenon, than say in other "Christian" countries (or ones with significant Christian populations).


PS> The program even had a link to a "Rapture watch/news site"
http://www.raptureready.com/

When I visited Abbottsford, BC, I was watching that same CBC programme. In the Untied States, we do not get similar broadcasts unless we pay for it through satellite and cable services... We mostly watch CNN or Fox News Channel... ()

Anyhoo, from that programme, I did find it disturbing that many other countries are wondering WTH is going on in the US with this "Left Behind" stuff...

I think the BBC did similar programming awhile ago, as well as the French...

What do I believe? That's a good question.

I have always been enamored with the book of Revelations. What I don't like is the profiteering I am seeing off of freaking folks out to come to Jesus Christ by that mechanism...

The way I understand it, folks are to come to Christ freely--to freely serve God. Not be forced or scared to come to God--not to be honnery or conceited to come before God--but pentitent purity with free will before God. Basically--everybody wants to go to Heaven but no one wants to die for it...

Apparently, folks will be pulled up in the hours of the Rapture. But it comes like a "thief" in the night.

Well, unfortunately I see it like this, if God wants the Rapture to come, then hey, put me in the "Amen corner" with the rest of the angelic choirs when the seals are being opened...

I am not worried about it, because my life is in God's hands now...

These folks that are all up into this "Left Behind" series stuff--not the writers--but the LEGIONS of followers--most of them have not read the "Divine Comedy" by Dante that follows Revelations more closely... If they had, they would be more leery about strong interpretations with Revelations made by others...

Besides, Revelations was written with a strong Hebrew context, so it takes understanding the entire Christian Bible to its entirety with all translations--practically being a seminary student to completely understand what the Revelations is talking about...

Which makes it fun for me because I like complexities and paradoxes such as what the Book of the Revelations is saying...

[RACooper]

Originally posted by honeychile
Reading the Book of Revelation will answer all of your questions. Plus, it's the only book of the Bible which has a blessing attached to it (Chapter 1).

I've read Revelations many times... in fact had to as part of my OAC (the now defunct "grade 13" up here) Religion class.

However I can't say any of the 'fervor' or "left behind" mentality that has been linked with the fundamentalist/evengelical/revival movements within American Chirstianity was imparted or adequately explained.

As AKA Monet said I am (along with others) just trying to understand it or figure out WTH is going on... or more accurately why the "Rapture" movement/phenomenon is currently and historically so strong in the US, and seemingly nowhere else (other than groups founded by American missionaries).

[Glitter650]

I've read almost the whole left behind series, not necessarily because I believe in it, but because I was curious. I would definitely read the Bible first ,then I do suggest the series, it puts it into a kind of real life perspective of these characters who believe this is going to happen. There's also a movie with Kirk Cameron.

[Honeykiss1974]

Originally posted by RACooper
I've read Revelations many times... in fact had to as part of my OAC (the now defunct "grade 13" up here) Religion class.

However I can't say any of the 'fervor' or "left behind" mentality that has been linked with the fundamentalist/evengelical/revival movements within American Chirstianity was imparted or adequately explained.

As AKA Monet said I am (along with others) just trying to understand it or figure out WTH is going on... or more accurately why the "Rapture" movement/phenomenon is currently and historically so strong in the US, and seemingly nowhere else (other than groups founded by American missionaries).

It probably seem so prevalent lately within the US because of a few things. For example, Sept.11 (caused many people to reflect on their life and the afterlife) and the war and its effects defintiely cause people to wonder about life after this one. Add on numerous naturals disasters, constant unrest in the Middle east, publishing of The DaVinci Code, current battle concerning legislation that deals with many morality issues (gay marriage, the removal of any christian reference from anything that isn't privately funded), etc., its no surprise that people are focusing on the Christianity and the fundamentals of it. Many, if not all of these events can be inferred in the book of Revelations (which is why honeychile referenced it).

I don't think anyone can say "well, this influx of the Rapture in the US is caused by reason A,B,C,D,...." because there really isn't one or two solid reasons.

Personally, I do believe that we are living in the last days and the Christ's return will be soon, but I (as well as other believers I'm sure) don't look to hollywood books or movies to tell me that nor to explain it.

As with anything that makes money, once businesses find something profitable, they latch EVERYTHING on to it - the sincere and the insincere. I say that because everything dealing with the Rapture that is out today IS NOT written/supported/funded by evangelical Christians. Some people are just latching on to a belief that is currently "in style" with the mainstream.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally posted by Honeykiss1974
It probably seem so prevalent lately within the US because of a few things. For example, Sept.11 (caused many people to reflect on their life and the afterlife) and the war and its effects defintiely cause people to wonder about life after this one. Add on numerous naturals disasters, constant unrest in the Middle east, publishing of The DaVinci Code, current battle concerning legislation that deals with many morality issues (gay marriage, the removal of any christian reference from anything that isn't privately funded), etc., its no surprise that people are focusing on the Christianity and the fundamentals of it. Many, if not all of these events can be inferred in the book of Revelations (which is why honeychile referenced it).

I don't think anyone can say "well, this influx of the Rapture in the US is caused by reason A,B,C,D,...." because there really isn't one or two solid reasons.

Personally, I do believe that we are living in the last days and the Christ's return will be soon, but I (as well as other believers I'm sure) don't look to hollywood books or movies to tell me that nor to explain it.

As with anything that makes money, once businesses find something profitable, they latch EVERYTHING on to it - the sincere and the insincere. I say that because everything dealing with the Rapture that is out today IS NOT written/supported/funded by evangelical Christians. Some people are just latching on to a belief that is currently "in style" with the mainstream.

Although I disagree with you on whether or not that this time are the "Last Days" before the coming of Christ due to reasons that are waaay off this topic, I do think those who profiteer off the scaring folks into Christ is shady and very Legion...

I take the coming of Christ extremely seriously as a reflection of how I have contributed to the goodness here on Earth in my life, regardless of negative external outcomes from wars and rumors of wars, from pestilence and tragedy...

I do agree that there are folks that are finding what's "in style" about the scare tactics of Christianity and are mooching money off the least of those available to afford it to buy into an idea that does more harm to the one's spirit that uplifting it.

But I think pop culture has totally missed the mark with all these "prophetic" and "novel" ideas coming from an ancient text that takes several years in divinity school with 3 language translations to begin to understand its utterances...

Revelation also does not come to those who have closed minds... It comes to those "walking their walk on the road to Damascus"... It will change the course of one's life...

That is why I love the Book of the Revelation because of its ending beauty of it... It is almost Seraph...

However, Dante's "Divine Comedy" along with John Milton's "Paradise Lost" and "Paradise Regained" books trump the "Left Behind" series--and these books were written during the Renaissance...

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by honeychile
Reading the Book of Revelation will answer all of your questions.

I'll have to disagree with that suggestion -- seeing as how the Catholic, Orthodox and Classical Protestant churches had all been reading the Book of Revelation for 18 centuries before the idea of the rapture -- as commonly used today -- was ever suggested.

Terms:

The Millennium: the thousand-year reign of Christ described in Revelation, Chapter 20, in which some believe that the world will be totally Christianized.

Postmillennialism: the teaching that the Kingdom of God is currently being extended throughout the world (i.e., we are currently in the millennium, which is not necessarily to be understood as a literal 1000 years), and that Christ will return at the end of that "millennium."

Premillennialism: the belief that the second coming of Christ will occure before the millennium (and the Final Judgment will occur after the millennium), and that the Second Coming will be accompanied by the Rapture -- the immediate taking up into heaven of all the living who are saved (and the immediate resurrection and taking into heaven of the dead saved). Part of this teaching involves the idea of the Tribulation -- a time of great persecution -- before the Rapture. Pretribulationists believe that the Rapture will occur befor the Tribulation, Post-tribulationists believe that it will occur after it.

While Christianity has always taught something akin to the Rapture -- that at the Second Coming, all the faithful will be gathered into the presence of Christ -- the term itself, as well as its association with a premillennial viewpoint, dates only from the 1800s and is used almost exclusively by Evangelicals.

Amillennialism: the belief that interprets Revelation Chapter 20 symbolically and sees the millennium not as an eartly reign of Christ in which the world will be totally Christianized, but rather as the present period of Christ's rule in heaven and on earth through his presence in the Church. Although they probably would not use the term "amillennialism," this is more or less the view of Catholicism, Orthodoxy and Classical Protestantism, and of historical Christianity in general.

The idea of a Pre-Trib Rapture and of Premillennialism only really took root a century or two ago, and it took root largely in the US, which may explain its popularity here among more Fundamentalist and Evangelical groups. It was first taught by John Nelson Darby in the early-mid 1880s and was made popular by the Scofield Reference Bible in the mid-1800s, where it appealed to a "looking for the End Times" mentality that has long been a part of Christianity in the US and of our periodic "Great Awakenings." It has been made more popular still in recent years by Hal Lindsey's Late Great Planet Earth and by the Left Behind series.

To answer your question, RACooper, (in case you can't tell already), I do not believe that the idea of the Rapture, as commonly taught in some circles today, is either Biblical, apostolic, or otherwise in harmony with "the faith once delivered to the saints." If it were, it seems to me that someone would have clued into it long before the 1800s.

MysticCat: fabulous explanation. Before I proceed, I will say that this is my explanation of what (SOME) fundamental Christians believe and why.

1. The rapture is, as previously mentioned what (some) Christians believe to be the second coming of Christ. In this istance, they believe that the "dead in Christ shall rise first" and the "then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." (1 Thess 4:16 and 17)
It is also believed that Jesus will come from East....(Matthew 24:27) Ever wonder why most graves face east?

At this point, the "saved" will be caught up and taken to Heaven and the lost will be "Left Behind" (thus the name of the book). That book, BTW is a fictional account of what SOME believe will happen.

Following this event, the 7 year period of tribulation will follow (in which the Anti-Christ will be revealed and brought to power), and then the battle of Armageddon. Most of this in Revelation

2. Christians are "so enraptured by this idea" because a) if it comes in their lifetime, they will not see death, nor coruption. b) if it comes in their life, they will be taken from, what they believe, is a corrupt and wretched world to Heaven

3. As far as the series goes, I think it is an attempt to evangelize those who are "lost." For those who consider themselves saved Christians, I believe it's more entertainment than anything.

To reply to other posts:

I do agree that there are folks that are finding what's "in style" about the scare tactics of Christianity and are mooching money off the least of those available to afford it to buy into an idea that does more harm to the one's spirit that uplifting it.

Most of the truly "fundamental" churches do not do this, there are many who do use these ridiculous tactics in the name of Jesus to try to get money and fame. RIDICULOUS.

But I think pop culture has totally missed the mark with all these "prophetic" and "novel" ideas coming from an ancient text that takes several years in divinity school with 3 language translations to begin to understand its utterances...

I truly believe that the bible is easy to understand for those who WANT to understand it. As I have quoted before "God is not the author of confusion." Why would HE make it so hard to understand what he wants us to know? There are many different authors of the bible, all with a different audiences. The original audience of all the disciples, even Jesus himself were the Jews. In Matthew 15 Jesus said, " I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." It was not until later (after the Jews rejected him and then killed him) that the apostles/disciples were sent to the Gentiles. Anyway, point is that the bible is not as confusing as it seems if you know who is being talked to and seek understanding.

Cooper, I hope that is some what of a decent explanation, I don't expect everyone to "buy into" these beliefs, or to evangelize you in any way (unless you want me to of course ). I am just trying to answer from the view point of a Fundamental Christian.

[RACooper]

Originally posted by ADPiZXalum
It was not until later (after the Jews rejected him and then killed him) that the apostles/disciples were sent to the Gentiles.

Well other than, you know, the Apostles and the other followers of Jesus' teachings... and by the by it was the ROMANS who killed Jesus (since capital punishment was the purview of the Roman government) - which is one of the many charges against the Roman Catholic Church leveled by the European Institue for Protestant Stuidies (one of the few fundamentalist movements in Europe - headed by Ian Paisley, trained and ordained in the US).

Originally posted MysticCat81
To answer your question, RACooper, (in case you can't tell already), I do not believe that the idea of the Rapture, as commonly taught in some circles today, is either Biblical, apostolic, or otherwise in harmony with "the faith once delivered to the saints." If it were, it seems to me that someone would have clued into it long before the 1800s.

Actually there was quite a few "Rapture" movements in Europe during the end of the 1st millenium - all more or less saying the end of days was nigh... so give up your world possessions and turn yourself completely over the Christ. The Church took a very dim view of these movements back then, mainly because some where convinced they had already been left behind - and hence damned... so some people felt they had nothing to lose and went on a rampage.

Another crop of "Rapture fever" also engulfed Europe during the time of the Black Plague - again with many interpreting the death and collapse of social order as the "end of days"... some within the RCC credit the various persuasions of Rapture or Fundamentalist philosophy that sprung-up at this time as giving birth and strength to "Protest" movements against the RCC a hundred years later.

Finally there was some talk of the "Rapture" in Britain during WWI - with accounts of angels appearing on the battlefield... and an arguement that death and violence on such a massive scale was a sign again of the "end of days".


The whole book of Revelations is very complex - in that the symbolism is so heavy and convuluted when taken into the contemporaneous context of Jewish/Semetic/Middle Eastern philosophy and folklore - something that I feel many past and present "Rapture" adherants have failed to take into account (as they have much of the Bible - a prime example being the whole "Eye of the Needle" confusion... hint it was a gate in Jerusleum; not an actual 'pin').

[AKA_Monet]

Originally posted by RACooper
The whole book of Revelations is very complex - in that the symbolism is so heavy and convuluted when taken into the contemporaneous context of Jewish/Semetic/Middle Eastern philosophy and folklore - something that I feel many past and present "Rapture" adherants have failed to take into account (as they have much of the Bible - a prime example being the whole "Eye of the Needle" confusion... hint it was a gate in Jerusleum; not an actual 'pin').

I have that same issue with these present "Rapture adherants"...

I really think it takes a "complete" study of the Bible is all its forms as well as Jewish/Semetic and Islamic texts to gain a full understanding of what the book of the Revelations is really trying to transcend...

But as mere humans, we are unable to fathom space-time continuum type of thought pattern--mainly because we do not live that long...

So we are relegated to have an "ending up on top" ideal praying that God will be with us in our own ending...

There is only one way out of this world's dimension and I personally have not met someone physically who has died to live to tell about it...

[Tom Earp]

So, Some one read a certain Book of Something?

Pardone Me, but The so called writings have been written, translated to infinitame'?

Just who was there when They supposedly were Written? Not a fuckin Sole!

We as some convoluted semi want to be start describing what scholars have been trying to do for years.

Give it a break! Time to eat a so I can live!

Well other than, you know, the Apostles and the other followers of Jesus' teachings... and by the by it was the ROMANS who killed Jesus (since capital punishment was the purview of the Roman government) - which is one of the many charges against the Roman Catholic Church leveled by the European Institue for Protestant Stuidies (one of the few fundamentalist movements in Europe - headed by Ian Paisley, trained and ordained in the US

True, the Romans technically killed him, but the Jews handed him over and insisted that he be killed, rather than Barabbas, neither Pilate nor Herrod found any fault in him.

Matthew 27
[[17] Therefore when they were gathered together, Pilate said unto them, Whom will ye that I release unto you? Barabbas, or Jesus which is called Christ?
[18] For he knew that for envy they had delivered him.
[19] When he was set down on the judgment seat, his wife sent unto him, saying, Have thou nothing to do with that just man: for I have suffered many things this day in a dream because of him.
[20] But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus.
[21] The governor answered and said unto them, Whether of the twain will ye that I release unto you? They said, Barabbas.
[22] Pilate saith unto them, What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ? They all say unto him, Let him be crucified.
[23] And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying, Let him be crucified.
[24] When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
[25] Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

[RACooper]

Originally posted by ADPiZXalum
True, the Romans technically killed him, but the Jews handed him over and insisted that he be killed, rather than Barabbas, neither Pilate nor Herrod found any fault in him.

While the Jewish authorities (such as it was) or people may have wanted Jesus dead, ultimately it was the Roman government and military that judged him, signed the writ of execution, determined the form of execution, tortured Jesus, inflicted punishment on the way to the execution, performed the execution, and completed the execution (well in the thieves cases).

Interestingly enough the early Church really didn't care to much about the whole "the Jews killed Jesus" crap - that line never really gained power until well after the fall of the Roman Empire in the West... after 900AD or so - right around the time religious conflicts morphed from a Christian vs Christian (some of the accounts of Monestaries or Bishoprics going to war against each other are rather brutal) to a Christian vs other; I guess the anti-Semitic thrust behind placing blame the Jews for the death of Jesus was politically and economically motivated by secualr and religious authorities.

Oh if your ever interested in other accounts of Jesus' final days and hours I'd recommend looking into the Agnostic Gospels or the Dead Sea Scrolls - some interesting, and slightly divergent accounts of the political power plays going on within the Jewish and Roman administrations - such as politically trapping Pilate, and strong-arming him into executing Jesus.