Cloning: Yay or Nay?

[DWAlphaGam]

Ok, the other controversial threads seem to have petered out, and I saw a show on TLC about this last night and this article this morning, so I figured I'd start a thread and see how this discussion goes. (I don't have time to post my opinion right now, but I will when I get the chance. )

AUGUST 13, 05:17 ET
Doctor Defends Cloning Experiment

LOUISVILLE, Ky. (AP) — A doctor who is trying to clone babies for several couples as part of a controversial experiment said cloning isn't such a ``monstrous'' procedure, but he acknowledged that risks do exist.

Dr. Panayiotis Zavos appeared on CNN's ``Connie Chung Tonight'' on Monday with an American couple who will be the first to take part in the cloning. Six or seven couples hope to have a baby next year as part of the experiment.

``The public will realize that this is not as monstrous as ... it may sound. Once they see a baby dressed in pink or blue, they will say, 'What a wonderful thing,''' said Zavos.

But ``for me to say there are no risks involved, that would be a pure lie,'' he added.

The American couple — known only as Bill and Kathy — described publicly for the first time the failed attempts to have a child that led them to turn to Zavos.

The reproduction researcher said he plans to clone a baby for the couple by taking DNA from Kathy and adding it to a donor's egg. The donor's DNA would be removed from the egg, which would be implanted into a surrogate mother.

Zavos said the procedures would be attempted later this year in two overseas clinics. He would not disclose the locations.

Bill and Kathy, whose voices were disguised and faces blurred on the show, said they met in 1989 — Bill was a 40-something divorcee and Kathy was a 30-something career woman. The two wed in 1993 and immediately began trying to have a baby.

After failed attempts of reproducing the natural way, the couple tried artificial insemination and in vitro fertilization. Nearly four years after their last unsuccessful attempt in 1998, the couple read an article on Zavos and his cloning experiments.

``I tracked him down, and I called him, and I called him, and I called him,'' Bill said.

Zavos resigned last year from the University of Kentucky to help lead the human cloning effort. So far his medical teams have experimented only with animal clones.

Both Congress and the U.N. General Assembly have debated bans on human cloning, but have yet to pass legislation. A few states and foreign countries, including Great Britain, have prohibited cloning.

[AOX81]

I say NAY!!

[JMUduke]

no human cloning!!!!!!! i can't even argue sensibly WHY...I just get nightmares about freaky science fiction movies and I just don't want our world to turn into a science friction freak out...I want it to stay the way it is now, good and bad.

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by JMUduke
no human cloning!!!!!!! i can't even argue sensibly WHY...I just get nightmares about freaky science fiction movies and I just don't want our world to turn into a science friction freak out...I want it to stay the way it is now, good and bad.

Unfortunately that's not how the (scientific) world works - there will certainly be humans cloned, whether it be made illegal in the US or not.

There are extreme issues with animal clones right now - DNA defects, congenital diseases, etc. The same, expressed in humans, would certainly be considered horrible and cause intense outrage.

However, there can be useful insights to come out of such experimentation - without the desire to clone humans, for instance, stem cell research would not nearly be what it is today, and that potential would remain untapped.

The bottom line is, it's still imperfect science. I'd say we're decades from a viable human clone - and in that time, who knows if the fervor will continue in the 'rogue science' community. We'll have to wait and see - hopefully enough good can come out of the research to justify the unavoidable bad things that will come out of such efforts.

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by DWAlphaGam
Bill and Kathy, whose voices were disguised and faces blurred on the show, said they met in 1989 — Bill was a 40-something divorcee and Kathy was a 30-something career woman. The two wed in 1993 and immediately began trying to have a baby.

After failed attempts of reproducing the natural way, the couple tried artificial insemination and in vitro fertilization. Nearly four years after their last unsuccessful attempt in 1998, the couple read an article on Zavos and his cloning experiments.

I am not a scientist by any means, so I can't make a scientific argument here. However, I can say that as described in this article, I am completely against cloning. Bill and Kathy have tried to reproduce for 5 years and it hasn't worked. Maybe there is a biological reason why they haven't been able to do it, and they should just leave it at that. Although I don't personally desire children and therefore don't necessarily understand where they're coming from, I don't understand why they can't just accept the fact that they are not going to have a biological child and look into adoption. If you really want kids, I just don't see how the biology of it is so important that one would go to such extremes when there are children available for adoption.

For the record, I am also against the cloning of animals.

[DWAlphaGam]

I'm also against reproductive cloning for the same reasons valkyrie mentioned.

I am, however, for cloning for stem cell research and therapy. There are many people who could be helped by these medical advancements and I think scientists should have free rein to do cloning research for that reason.

I would post more but I actually have work to do for once...

Edited to add:

Here is a good article from the National Institute of Health on stem cells:

http://www.nih.gov/news/stemcell/primer.htm

Summary from the article:

Given the enormous promise of stem cells to the development of new therapies for the most devastating diseases, it is important to simultaneously pursue all lines of research. Science and scientists need to search for the very best sources of these cells. When they are identified, regardless of their sources, researchers will use them to pursue the development of new cell therapies.

The development of stem cell lines, both pluripotent and multipotent, that may produce many tissues of the human body is an important scientific breakthrough. It is not too unrealistic to say that this research has the potential to revolutionize the practice of medicine and improve the quality and length of life.

So, do the potential benefits outweigh the potential risks? I think they do.

[Kevin]

The law and people should at least allow science to EXPLORE these areas.

There is no telling how much knowledge can be gained simply from exploring this process.

The world stands so much to gain and so little to lose.

So what's the problem?

[Kevlar281]

Cloning Organs: Yes

Cloning People For Organs: No

[Hootie]

Okay this may be coming from an uneducated person in the field of cloning and science...however a few things came to my mind when I saw the commercial for that show.

Lets say they DO clone you. What good is it? I mean yes for science, but I think so many people are simply fascinated with the thought of a little "mini me" version of themselves. But really when you think about it the clone won't have your same memories or feelings. I know that's not the point, but think about it on the intelecutal front....wouldn't it totally suck to see YOURSELF grow up and succeed more than YOU did? I dunno, just a little thing to think about.

Hootie

We should try it at least once to see what exactly it entails. If we find that it's really quiete OK, that this individual can lead a normal life then it can be a viable option of reproduction for lesbians. If not, then well we'll learn from our mistakes.

And don't watch too many scary science fiction films about out-of-this-world clones.... they'll rot your brain.

[aggieAXO]

my view exactly Valkyrie!! When I heard that the vet. school at Texas A&M started cloning animals last year I was appalled-I knew it was going to happen sooner or later though.

There are so many children in this world that need adoption-we need to be thinking about this instead of always feeling the need to pass on our own genes.

That said I am for stem cell research. I do believe we can have one without the other.

Originally posted by valkyrie


I am not a scientist by any means, so I can't make a scientific argument here. However, I can say that as described in this article, I am completely against cloning. Bill and Kathy have tried to reproduce for 5 years and it hasn't worked. Maybe there is a biological reason why they haven't been able to do it, and they should just leave it at that. Although I don't personally desire children and therefore don't necessarily understand where they're coming from, I don't understand why they can't just accept the fact that they are not going to have a biological child and look into adoption. If you really want kids, I just don't see how the biology of it is so important that one would go to such extremes when there are children available for adoption.

For the record, I am also against the cloning of animals.

[Rudey]

If I had a clone, I'd kill him. I would beat him with a sack of doorknobs until he pled for mercy, and then I'd keep beating him because I have no mercy for clones. Whatever remained, I would mail it back to the good doctor who created him so he would learn his lesson.

-Rudey
--After I was done beating my clone, I would have sex with Connie Chung and make her husband, Maurie Povich, have an entire episode of his talk show devoted to my feats as his wife's lover.

[JMUduke]

hahahahah....

[UF56]

I read the interview they had yesterday and was appalled. Connie Chung asked them why they didnt want to adopt and they said something along the lines of the type of health concerns they had about adopting children from foriegn countries and how they didnt want to deal with it. BUT later on in the interview Connie asked them how they felt about the health risks involved and how the dolly sheep has arthritis at such a young age and they were like oh we can handle anything that is brought our way. I was like okay contradict yourselves. I think they are being selfish and should not being doing this especially when Dr. Zarvos says that he cant guarantee them anything and when they dont even know all the health risks involved. Parents are supposed to protect children not make them susceptible to harm, which is very probable with this procedure. Also with cloning beef cattle they have had problems where the fetus grows way to big and both the mom and the child have to be put down. What are they going to do euthanize the surrogate mother too? Sorry to ramble but this article really made me mad!!!

[UF56]

Here is the interview:


http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0208/12/cct.00.html