Rumsfeld, Germany, war crimes arrest?

IowaStatePhiPsi · #1 02-04-2005, 12:35 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4236489.stm

interesting.

RUgreek · #2 02-04-2005, 01:22 PM

I still like Germany, but what's up with Belgium and other countries trying to circumvent diplomatic immunity? I don't recall the ICC prosecuting the US government for war crimes, so why would Germany want to get involved? Just doesn't make complete sense to me...unless it's all b.s. and a publicity stunt.

RACooper · #3 02-04-2005, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RUgreek
I still like Germany, but what's up with Belgium and other countries trying to circumvent diplomatic immunity? I don't recall the ICC prosecuting the US government for war crimes, so why would Germany want to get involved? Just doesn't make complete sense to me...unless it's all b.s. and a publicity stunt.

Its ironically to do with the strict laws regarding war-crimes and war-ciminals enshirined in German law following WWII... laws actually written up in this case by US & UK military lawyers involved with the Nuremburg trials - all part of giving the trials legitamacy under the joint allied legal system (or as it was known as later the United Nations) and under German law. So if Rumsfeld was charged, it would actually be under the 60 year old legal framework laid down to charge the Nazis...

As for diplomatic immunity... its legal applications are not as broad as the movies would have you think, and even Rummy did qualify it doesn't protect you from 'capital' crimes - such as war-crimes.

Finally the ICC... well the ICC is kinda like the Geneva Convention; it only applies to you if you are a signatory... but as we know Bush refused to sign on... but hey what do you expect considering the legal advice on international laws he's already been given? Off the top of my head I can recall Gonzales refering to the Geneva Convention as "quaint" and not applicable to the US.

RUgreek · #4 02-04-2005, 03:50 PM

This still doesn't make sense because the article says U.S. lawyers filed the complaint in a german court. Why wasn't it filed in the U.S.? I'm really not trying to play dumb, but I'm just not "getting it" with this war crime charge. I mean, if they tried to arrest a cabinet member (and I would be shocked if they did) don't they realize this would create a serious diplomatic issue?

I know some of you guys are pleased to read crap like this because you think someone is finally going to stick it to the U.S. government, but you gotta use common sense first and ask is something like this really meritorious. If they do charge him and arrest him, there will be serious political consequences. Plus, I think they should be putting politicians on notice if they face possible arrest in a foreign country. It's a little back-handed and stupid in my opinion.

RACooper · #5 02-04-2005, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RUgreek
This still doesn't make sense because the article says U.S. lawyers filed the complaint in a german court. Why wasn't it filed in the U.S.? I'm really not trying to play dumb, but I'm just not "getting it" with this war crime charge. I mean, if they tried to arrest a cabinet member (and I would be shocked if they did) don't they realize this would create a serious diplomatic issue?

I know some of you guys are pleased to read crap like this because you think someone is finally going to stick it to the U.S. government, but you gotta use common sense first and ask is something like this really meritorious. If they do charge him and arrest him, there will be serious political consequences. Plus, I think they should be putting politicians on notice if they face possible arrest in a foreign country. It's a little back-handed and stupid in my opinion.

Okay - in the US the legal terms under which they filed don't exist; further it was to happen it would have to go through the Supreme Court - can you see that happening? (both politically and legally). Now Germany allows foreigners to bring charges against people through German law - however Germany will only proceed against the accused in it's own territories... so yes Rummy could be in trouble if he visited Germany - but it's not like the Germans will come after him. All this is surprisingly familiar to me because roughly the same legal arguement was brought against Bush before his visit up here (we have pretty much the same laws regarding war-crimes as Germany up here)... but the case didn't proceed against Bush, because it was based on the premise that the War in Iraq was illegal - now the courts didn't want to deal with it; basically because they said it was a matter for international courts to rule firmly on the legality of the war...

Now this matter has happened in the past as well... afterall there is a reason that say Kissinger or Sharon don't visit certain countries... it's because of outstanding domestic charges of warcrimes against them...

As for being pleased as punch to here about this.... yep, I'll admit that I'd love to see Rummy charged - however I'd prefer that he go before an international court. Some of the crap that has spewed from his mouth about the conventions of war, the Geneva Convention, the treatment of prisoners, and the double standard that he adheres too all beg for him to face some justice... but will it happen? Unfortunately no... because the political and legal climate don't support it; so I have to take what little victories I can, even if they are hollow.

IowaStatePhiPsi · #6 02-10-2005, 03:13 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4254191.stm
He's safe, Germans are pussies

Rudey · #7 02-10-2005, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by IowaStatePhiPsi
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4254191.stm
He's safe, Germans are pussies

I have found the perfect solutions to your problem with America. You can move to Canada since you wanted to leave and then marry RACooper or befriend him or whatever and just attack America all day.

-Rudey

RUgreek · #8 02-10-2005, 03:46 PM

oh well, better luck next time haters, but we all enjoyed you playing and have some lovely parting gifts for you...

IowaStatePhiPsi · #9 02-10-2005, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RUgreek
oh well, better luck next time haters, but we all enjoyed you playing and have some lovely parting gifts for you...

Rice-a-roni, the classic 70s game show sympathy prize.