Christmas and Religion in Italy

[Taualumna]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...y_christmas_dc

Anyone think it's the parents that are causing these problems?

[PM_Mama00]

I didn't know that there were that many Muslims in Italy.


But I'm sorry if this sounds bad, but Italy has been known for being Catholic. Rarely ever have I met another Italian who is not Catholic, and the fact that a judge ordered a Cross off of a wall.... that's just horrible.

[Private I]

I believe Southern Italy was under Ottoman Turk influence for a few hundred years, which explains a lot about the closeness of family ties and the protectiveness of the young woman's virginity-at least that's what my race and ethnicity prof told us.
Whether that translates into the Islamic religion having a strong force in Italy I know not. But I do know that in the majority of European countries there tend to be sizeable Muslim minorities.

[AGDee]

I don't see why you think parents have much to do with it. They weren't mentioned anywhere in the article.

I found this article though which I found interesting. It seems to address some of the same types of issues.

When In Rome: How Cooperation Between Religion And Government In Italy Is Slowly Strangling Faith
Italy has a long Catholic tradition, and today the vast majority of Italians retain at least a nominal allegiance to the church.

But a funny thing has happened along the way: Despite centuries of cooperation between church and state, relatively few Italians today bother to follow church teachings, and the nation has many secular overtones. Although more than 95 percent of Italians say they are Catholic, only about 30 percent attend weekly services (as Catholicism requires), a figure that has plummeted since the 1950s.

A recent New York Times story explored the strange paradox of religion in Italy. By tradition, public schools post crucifixes, yet few Italians see the church as a political force, and they simply will not tolerate it meddling in their personal lives. As The Times reported, “In one recent poll, only 32 percent of Italians surveyed said it was right for religion to have an influence on the laws of the state.”

Abortion and divorce are legal and most Italians hold liberal views on social issues that clash sharply with conservative Catholic doctrine. When Rocco Buttiglione, a government minister, made critical comments about homosexuality, the outcry from the public was so great that Buttiglione was forced to withdraw his name from consideration for an important European Union post last month.

The Times reported that conservative politicians like Buttiglione and the Vatican “lament the decline of values and religion, some wondering whether Italy and Europe have lost touch with their Christian roots….”

Yet most Italians seem to retain respect for the church as an institution and regard it as a valuable cultural phenomenon. Priests and nuns are popular figures on television programs, and many view Pope John Paul II as a great moral leader. Many Italians, the story pointed out, supported the pope’s opposition to the war in Iraq and applaud his call for eradicating poverty.

[Taualumna]

I suggested parents because sometimes, it's the parents that are doing the complaining...it was parents that complained first here, I believe....kids really don't care what they do if it is fun for them.

[krazy]

The only one at fault here is the media... It sounds to me like this was not an issue at all. I think the teacher did the right thing by allowing the Muslim children to substitute "virtue" for "Jesus."

She didn't "ban" anything, what a crock.

I see what you mean by parents, but it is the media in this situation, not the parents.

Yeah, Italy, Spain, Portugal all have strong Moorish influence, from 711 until 1492 southern Spain was under Muslim rulers. All of them are a stone's throw from Northern-Africa.

[EagleChick19]

Originally posted by AGDee
I don't see why you think parents have much to do with it. They weren't mentioned anywhere in the article.

I found this article though which I found interesting. It seems to address some of the same types of issues.

When In Rome: How Cooperation Between Religion And Government In Italy Is Slowly Strangling Faith
Italy has a long Catholic tradition, and today the vast majority of Italians retain at least a nominal allegiance to the church.

But a funny thing has happened along the way: Despite centuries of cooperation between church and state, relatively few Italians today bother to follow church teachings, and the nation has many secular overtones. Although more than 95 percent of Italians say they are Catholic, only about 30 percent attend weekly services (as Catholicism requires), a figure that has plummeted since the 1950s.

A recent New York Times story explored the strange paradox of religion in Italy. By tradition, public schools post crucifixes, yet few Italians see the church as a political force, and they simply will not tolerate it meddling in their personal lives. As The Times reported, “In one recent poll, only 32 percent of Italians surveyed said it was right for religion to have an influence on the laws of the state.”

Abortion and divorce are legal and most Italians hold liberal views on social issues that clash sharply with conservative Catholic doctrine. When Rocco Buttiglione, a government minister, made critical comments about homosexuality, the outcry from the public was so great that Buttiglione was forced to withdraw his name from consideration for an important European Union post last month.

The Times reported that conservative politicians like Buttiglione and the Vatican “lament the decline of values and religion, some wondering whether Italy and Europe have lost touch with their Christian roots….”

Yet most Italians seem to retain respect for the church as an institution and regard it as a valuable cultural phenomenon. Priests and nuns are popular figures on television programs, and many view Pope John Paul II as a great moral leader. Many Italians, the story pointed out, supported the pope’s opposition to the war in Iraq and applaud his call for eradicating poverty.

I agree with this article. My parents went to Italy back in October (My dad is Italian.) They went to visit his relatives in central Italy. When they came back, my mom was talking to me about religion in Italy. She said that although most of Italy is Catholic; not many actually attend church. The reasoning behind it was they (the Italians) don't like having the Pope "butting" into their personal lives and they run things.

It was an eye opening statement!

[moe.ron]

Originally posted by krazy
The only one at fault here is the media... It sounds to me like this was not an issue at all. I think the teacher did the right thing by allowing the Muslim children to substitute "virtue" for "Jesus."

I agree with you completely.

Originally posted by Taualumna
Anyone think it's the parents that are causing these problems?

Why is this a problem?

[Rudey]

It doesn't matter what we think. The Italians decide on how to run their country.

If they want to place emphasis on that, let them. And I also wonder why anyone is upset. Are they upset at the mere mention of religion OR that it isn't their religion? Were the Muslim immigrants protesting the intrusion of religion into their public areas in their home countries? Or was it OK when it was their own religion?

The Italians while being strongly Catholic have defied religious figures often including on abortion, sex, and wars. They have every right to interpret how they want to live and their guests should understand that.

-Rudey
--A former resident of Italy

[Taualumna]

Originally posted by moe.ron





Why is this a problem?

If some parents didn't complain, then there will still be public schools where students can sing "Silent Night". Some people feel that Christians have now been almost completely written off! I read somewhere that a guy in Toronto tried to buy religious Christmas cards, and the staff told him that they didn't stock them so that non-Christians wouldn't be "offended"...huh???????

[moe.ron]

Originally posted by Taualumna
If some parents didn't complain, then there will still be public schools where students can sing "Silent Night". Some people feel that Christians have now been almost completely written off! I read somewhere that a guy in Toronto tried to buy religious Christmas cards, and the staff told him that they didn't stock them so that non-Christians wouldn't be "offended"...huh???????

The article wasn't very clear. It says

A middle-school teacher in the northern Italian town of Como set off a storm when she told Muslims in her class that if they preferred they could replace the line "this is the day of Jesus" with "this is the day of virtue."

This tell me that the teacher gave the childrens option to change the word. It did not prevent other children to keep the original line. So, why is it a problem to give children options?

[Munchkin03]

Why are people so upset, when they hardly understand what happened?