French Govt. Report: Wave of Anti-Semitism Threatens France

PhiPsiRuss · #1 10-19-2004, 10:07 PM

Tue Oct 19,12:21 PM ET

PARIS (Reuters) - A new wave of anti-Semitism in France is an extremely worrying phenomenon that poses a threat to the fabric of French society, according to a government report published Tuesday.

It said anti-Semitism in France was not restricted to people of Arab origin, Muslims and the far right, and proposed keeping a closer watch on racism in the media and schools and creating a national watchdog to monitor anti-Semitism.

"The new wave of anti-Semitic acts in the last few years is undeniable. The threats and violence against French Jews are an obvious, new and extremely worrying social factor," said the 50-page report, drawn up by writer Jean-Christophe Rufin.

"Anti-Semitism and racism are not marginal subjects, even less so are they communal matters -- they are at the heart of the evolution of our society," he said.

"The fate of liberty and equality are being played out today on the field of fraternity," he added, alluding to the three values espoused by the French revolution in 1789 and cherished by France since then.

Rest of the article is here: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...ntisemitism_dc

moe.ron · #2 10-20-2004, 03:09 AM

La fille danse
Quand elle joue avec moi
Et je pense que je l'aime des fois
Le silence, n'ose pas dis-donc
Quand on est ensemble
Mettre les mots
Sur la petite dodo

kddani · #3 10-20-2004, 05:40 AM

Russ, seems like a little pot calling kettle black here.

Complaining about Anti-Semitism in France yet so many of your posts have been Anti-French. There are a lot of GCers with French heritage (and actually no, i'm not one of them). Your hatefulness towards the French is getting offensive to some of them. While Anti-French doesn't have the same historical background as Anti-Semitism, it doesn't make it any more right.

So chill out on the French.

Some French girl break your heart or something?l

Kevin · #4 10-20-2004, 08:22 AM

So I guess being anti-nazi was a bad thing also?
(yeah, that's a little extreme)

The French are nice folks -- at least they were to me the last time I was there. Just not in Paris.

The people of NYC don't exactly act like lords and ladies either. Most people judge the French by who they meet in Paris. There are a lot of folks in that country.

On the other hand, France admits they have a problem with anti-semitism, Israel warns their citizens about France. I don't think the post that Russ made was totally unfair to the French nation. Apparently, there really is a problem. Perhaps that can explain some of their attitudes towards the middle east?

AlphaSigOU · #5 10-20-2004, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ktsnake
The French are nice folks -- at least they were to me the last time I was there. Just not in Paris.

The people of NYC don't exactly act like lords and ladies either. Most people judge the French by who they meet in Paris. There are a lot of folks in that country.

Ain't that the truth. Go over to Normandy or Luxembourg... they treat Americans like royalty over there. (They still appreciate us kicking the boche (Germans) outta there.)

Parisians are stuck-up snobs, anyway.

KSig RC · #6 10-20-2004, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kddani
Russ, seems like a little pot calling kettle black here.

Complaining about Anti-Semitism in France yet so many of your posts have been Anti-French. There are a lot of GCers with French heritage (and actually no, i'm not one of them). Your hatefulness towards the French is getting offensive to some of them. While Anti-French doesn't have the same historical background as Anti-Semitism, it doesn't make it any more right.

So chill out on the French.

Some French girl break your heart or something?l

Yeah Russ - jeez, dude, stop being so outraged by French anti-Semitism. It's not like there is decades of background to draw from or anything, and honestly being against French anti-Semites is just as bad as being anti-Semitic yourself. Obviously.

Dani, did I get this right?

kddani · #7 10-20-2004, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KSig RC

Dani, did I get this right?

Ummm.... let me think... no. Not that anyone could expect you to.

Russ has been busting on the French right and left, not just in this thread.

Rudey · #8 10-20-2004, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kddani
Ummm.... let me think... no. Not that anyone could expect you to.

Russ has been busting on the French right and left, not just in this thread.

Ummm Dani,
what is it that Russ has done to "bust" on the French?

Was it his being upset about anti-semitism in France?

Perhaps it was the French being so Anti-American?

Maybe it was the French supporting Saddam Hussein and essentially enjoying the fruits of his slaughter with a little oil money on the sly?

PS: Anti-Semitism and Racism cannot ever be compared with being against a country. I don't even understand how you did that comparison (and then threw in a "not the same historical background").

PPS: He posted a news article. If you had an issue with something he said earlier, you could have said it then and there. Your remark really has no relevance whatsoever to this thread.

-Rudey

RACooper · #9 10-20-2004, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
PS: Anti-Semitism and Racism cannot ever be compared with being against a country. I don't even understand how you did that comparison (and then threw in a "not the same historical background").

-Rudey

Okay this might cause an interesting debate but here goes... are comments or slanders made against Israel a product of Anti-Semitism or are they a product of Anti-Israel feelings?... or can you even seperate the two?

For example the ADL classifies anti-Israel (or anti-Zionist) comments/activities as one and the same as anti-Semitism.

Rudey · #10 10-20-2004, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RACooper
Okay this might cause an interesting debate but here goes... are comments or slanders made against Israel a product of Anti-Semitism or are they a product of Anti-Israel feelings?... or can you even seperate the two?

For example the ADL classifies anti-Israel (or anti-Zionist) comments/activities as one and the same as anti-Semitism.

The difference is that for many people anti-semitic remarks are masked under anti-Israel remarks. Often you can determine what is anti-semitic based on how often Israel is singled out.

And at the end of the day, this has nothing to do with the topic. France finally after receiving so much global criticism started to pay attention to the fact that the old Jew hatred is live and well among its people. Even you came on here a couple months ago spreading lies about it and trying to make it seem small and trivial.

-Rudey

KSig RC · #11 10-20-2004, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kddani
Ummm.... let me think... no. Not that anyone could expect you to.

Russ has been busting on the French right and left, not just in this thread.

oh danielle, my minute intelligence renders me nowhere near capable of understanding your point here, then. Please help me out - Russ is a far more prolific contributor to the News forum than, say, you, so explain to me how he is "busting" on the french "right and left" - mostly he "busts" on the increasing (and historically relevant) anti-Semitic nature of (vocal) segments of the French population.

Oh, and there was that whole "offering and supporting nuclear capabilities to Iran/Iraq" thing - that sucked. They also benefitted from the corrupt 'oil for food' program, packing all those food boxes with perfume then shipping it directly to the Hussein family. Not so cool.

No one is asking them to close museums, no one is trashing French culture, no one is claiming they didn't help the US during the Revolutionary War - but why would you pretend these aren't valid complaints? Or is it invalid when the French make similar attacks on American foreign policy?

It has to go both ways.

But obviously no one could expect me to 'get it'. But I'm the dickhead. Obviously.

kddani · #12 10-20-2004, 11:47 AM

- Just b/c someone doesn't "contribute" doesn't mean that they don't read the forum. In case you haven't noticed, a lot of GCers avoid posting in this forum b/c as soon as they do they come under attack. And the attackers usually come in the form of a clique (hmmmm... remember when everyone was so anti-Harem? N&P has it's own little harem of sorts).

- Did I even post any opinions on the French? No. So don't assume that my thoughts go a certain way. I was merely posting that there were several GCers with French heritage that were not really thrilled with the French bashing.

- Never said anything wasn't a valid complaint

- "But I'm the dickhead. Obviously." If you say so

Coramoor · #13 10-20-2004, 12:09 PM

The French are dirt.

This anti-semitism is not new. It's been pretty bad for a number of years now. I have a few friends that are jewish and from what they've me this has just been escalating for almost the last decade.

cashmoney · #14 10-20-2004, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kddani
I was merely posting that there were several GCers with French heritage that were not really thrilled with the French bashing.

And your point is?

KSig RC · #15 10-20-2004, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kddani
- Just b/c someone doesn't "contribute" doesn't mean that they don't read the forum. In case you haven't noticed, a lot of GCers avoid posting in this forum b/c as soon as they do they come under attack. And the attackers usually come in the form of a clique (hmmmm... remember when everyone was so anti-Harem? N&P has it's own little harem of sorts).

My point was less this, and more "feel free to post if you want to join in, but until then don't deride him for actually contributing."

As far as the 'harem' noise - you're just running mouth here, there's not any semblence of that here. I am not a strict "conservative" by any stretch of the imagination, but I am a strict "back up your points and make sense when posting (and avoid logical fallacies)" asshole. If that keeps people lurking, that's way too bad - we could all benefit from better discussion. I never come to somebody's defense just b/c of any perception of friendship - if I can add to a topic or defend my views, I will. I'm not here to defend RCooper's views or ksigkid's views or damasa's views. No clique, period.

Quote:

Originally posted by kddani
- Did I even post any opinions on the French? No. So don't assume that my thoughts go a certain way. I was merely posting that there were several GCers with French heritage that were not really thrilled with the French bashing.

Are they anti-Semitic? B/c the only people being bashed are the ignorant French perpetuating decades-old hatred. Again, you implicitly took a side by your post - you can't 'play dumb' in every thread you get caught up in, dude.

Quote:

Originally posted by kddani
- Never said anything wasn't a valid complaint

- "But I'm the dickhead. Obviously." If you say so

It appears we agree here, at least.

Seriously though, I'm actually trying to address what you're saying in context of the thread, and not 'coming to anyone's defense.' I don't do that in this forum, no matter who the poster is (or what your opinion of, say, me or Rudey may be).

I think you jumped Russ here, much like you're claiming he's 'bashed' the French - he's not just saying "THEY EAT FROGS AND WAVE WHITE FLAGS TO FUCK'EM!", but rather posting intelligent rationale for disagreeing with both French foreign policy and the internal attitudes of a vocal segment of the population. That's how it is supposed to be. I don't see how anyone can really take issue with that.