Int Hq

[EM1843]

Well, this post will be bitching, and since I know INT members read this board, you can tell Kipp that it was the big guy Matt from this weekend...

We had our ELC visit this week and it was going great. We also had Kipp come down to congratulate us on a great rush, since he was in town looking at Orlando locations for the next GA. We had an AM arrested stealing a wheelchair last week. We told Kipp about this and said we were taking corrective action and were very honest with him. This of course turned into a conversation about how we had "hazing problems" as well as separation issues. While I admit we are not perfect and are working on fixing some issues we have, we are saints on the UF campus as well as darn good for an SEC chapter in regards to fraternity education and have been making vast improvments in other areas.

We asked Kipp if he believed that most of the other chapters in the South as well as Grand High Alpha chapters were not hazing and did not have SERIOUS issues. We never really got a straight answer out of him, which is not supprising, but do they really think that Oklahoma is an anomoly? I know from experience that some of the other chapters in Florida haze their pledges, and I say pledges because that is what they are there, not AMs. I guess I just wonder why when we are making great improvements both locally and with international HQ we are being made out as flawed.

We are making the changes we need to, but I just wish INT HQ was not so disconected from the real world of chapters, as Oklahoma and LSU has proven that they are...

IN ZAX
Matt
EM 1843

[JoinerLxa]

Hazing is a fast-growing cancer that's very hard to root out.
There's always a "we went thru it, they have to go thru it
too" attitude. Much goes on in LXA that INT HQ doesn't
know about...that's why they seem to "over-react" when
there is a hint of it. Usually, though maybe not in your
chapter, if they see a "little something", its just the tip
of the iceberg.

Actually its amazing how quickly hazing can "crop up" and
grow. This happened long ago, so I guess it's OK to
mention it now:

At the time LXA started its colony at Vandy, it was the
first time in almost 50 years that a new fraternity was
allowed to come on campus. Vandy's frats had a very
very serious hazing problem at the time, and LXA's
no hazing policy and AM program was a major reason
some in Vandy's admin allowed LXA to colonize. It was
hoped by some that LXA would become an example for
the others.

The anti-hazing was a major factor in attracting the
"founding fathers." LXA was a new group on a very
traditional campus, and would be the only fraternity
without a house (that was a condition of colonization...
the chapter and HQ would not ask for a house).
So why would anyone join a new group in that
situation?? The emphasis on anti-hazing was one.

So the "founding fathers" were strongly anti-hazing.
Some turned down bids from other strong groups to
join the new group.

But as usually happens with a brand new colony, INT HQ
put an alumni advisory board in charge, made up of alums
from other chapters (obviously). In the beginning this
was a large group....15-20 alums at each meeting.

But many of the alums wanted to institute so-called
"baby hazing" in the new chapter, ideas they brought
from their chapter. Most wanted to make the new chapter
"in the image" of theirs. There was nothing "major" they
wanted to do....put a "pledge" in an (unplugged) oven
was the worst I heard. Making them carry purple coconuts
was a pretty typical suggestion. Treating the new AMs
like they were in boot camp might best describe what they
wanted to do (yelling, cleaning, etc).

Obviously the undergrad officers didn't want any of this,
being the ones who wanted to join a non-hazing fraternity,
but INT HQ had put these alums "in charge", and the
alums would always say "I've been a LX for years,
none of the actives has been one for more than a
couple of months. we know what we're doing...shut
up and do what you're told" kinda attitude.

The "founding fathers" obviously received NO hazing.
Many were only AMs for a few days, some for only
a couple of hours (AM ceremony at 4:00, initiation
started a few hours later).

The first AM class, a small one at 5or 6, went thru an AM
period basically ran by the alums. "Baby hazing" was
used. After initiation, these guys couldn't wait for next
semester when they could "baby haze" the new group.
It was telling...the attitude difference between the
founding fathers and the first AM class.

That's when the officers finally realize they had to put
a stop to it before more members came in being hazed
and therefore being in favor of hazing later. Eventually
most of the alums were "run off", but by then, the
colony was operating on its own. Everything turned
out great in the end.

But it really made it obvious to me how easily hazing
can crop up, and how those who were hazed, "baby"
or otherwise, WILL have an attitude in favor of hazing.

Disaster occurs as "hazing creep" over the years sets
in. What you think is "just a little fun" this year can turn into
beatings, forced drinking, etc. in just a few years.

So may your guys and HQ can just give each other
a break!

[EM1843]

I understand all that, and that is why we are being open and honest. But if those things can happen in a colony, and MUCH MORE SERIOUS events can happen in a Grand High Alpha chapter, it seems ludicrious to me to veiw us as some freak chapter. In stead of allowing our officers, who want to make many of these changes themselves, INT feels that they must tell us what to do.

ELCs cannot see what is wrong with a chapter as long as they report back to HQ. As Kipp said, "Oklahoma was able to hide [their actions] from us." Why then, when we are being honest, does he still view us in the same light as them or our neighbors at UF...

[Tom Earp]

Maybe if that is the head in the sand attitude then, there is a problem.

It should not be a Profess one thing and do another.

Hazing has been a very strong no-no as long as I can remember being a LXA.

Big school or small, it is still wrong by our By Laws.

To be open with a situation and not looked at as a few individuals maybe and not the total Chapter then that is short sightedness.

If, it goes back to s dont tell situation then it can get out of hand.

It sounds like poor judgement as JoinerLXA said to put Alums in who did have a hazing back ground and thank goodness run off.

The first time I heard New Associate was from George Spasyk in 1966 and we discussed it into the wea hours of the morning.

While it did not take effect until a few years later, LXA once again led in GreekDom with new inovations and ideas.

That is what LXA is supposed to be about, not like all of the rest.

To be honest, is supposed to be the correct way for LX's to do things. We are not followers, but leaders.!

The total idea is to look at the problem, get it corrected and not make a Scene out of it and turn it into a situation that is totally out of preportaion. Solve the problem and then carry on.

One problem does not make a Bad Chapter, just a stupid individual that can be cut away while the rest carry on.

Matt, I also hope that the neighbors are not LXA Chapters but other Greeks.

[EM1843]

The neighbors are both other chapters here at UF as well as other LCA chapters in Florida and the South.

[JoinerLxa]

Are you sure HQ views you as a "freak chapter" and
equivalent to a chapter with major hazing problems??
Or is that a little understandable, passionate exxageration?

I think if HQ thought your chapter had MAJOR hazing problems,
they would have just taken the charter and the books
and left town (heard of that happening before!)

My past experience with ELC's is that every-other-one is
a pretty good and level-head brother....and that doesn't
mean "easy" or "wink and nod." But the other half were
pretty much a**holes. They just needed a little more
training in "diplomacy" or "constructive" in "constructive
criticism"

Lets see....is this an even or an odd year? LOL

[EM1843]

Our ELC was actually ok, except for the fact that we told him as officers we would resolve the situation and to let us handle it. He chose to talk about it at his closign meeting, which let more brothers know what the situation was.

The person who said we were the same as the people beating their pledges was our COO Kipp Zurcher. That was also the person we asked if he beleived all the other LCA chapters that are GHA chapters are not hazing the way LSU and OU were.

[GammaZeta]

Hey Em,
It's called a double standard, our IHQ is filled with them. So don't worry about it. It is sad though that instead of helping you guys resolve a minor situation, they (HQ) decided to blow it out of proportion. Let me ask you a question, the next time an ELC visits and you have a question or wanted to talk about some incident that they were not aware of, will you talk to them again?

From what I have seen, IHQ is very disconnected from many of our chapters, including my former. It's not the case everywhere I'm sure, but there are many that feel that way.

I'm working on a post right now that somewhat deals with that: Gamma Zeta and the end. I'll be adding to it soon. IHQ pretty much has a "cookie cutter" way in its methods.

Try doing something their way, if it fails, keep doing it; is pretty much their motto.

[Tom Earp]

Maybe a little dissconected, but the cause might be that we as LXA have so many chapters that have to be contacted on a regular basis.

I cant remember who posted that LXA had cut staff personel but on the stage at G A, they were pretty impressive.

Still again, there are a lot of Chapters all around the country, some with problems, and some without.

I was dismayed while at GA that IHQ was upset when the committee that I was on gave another year extension to NC A & T.

For thos that dont know, it is a HBC that has the first supposedly HWF colonized on a campus.

I met and spent a lot of time with the young men and advisor while there and encouraged them and have since been in contact with Cliff Lowery their advisor.

Wouldnt it be great if None Of the Chapters ever had problems?

But, if there is a problem then hone in on it and get it corrected, not just leave out in the cold or take the charter.

There is a thing that goes back that is called a flying force. That boils down to if there is a real problem Chapter, send in the flying force and get it taken care of, but dont create problems if there are some or are minor.

[JoinerLxa]

I have to agree with much of what EM said, esp. the part
about cookie-cutter solutions. But you have to remember
there is ALOT of turnover at HQ....except for the "upper
eschelon", most only work there for a couple of years.
As with most businesses and institutions, the secretaries
actually run the place

[case in point: a few years ago, our Alum pres called HQ
to ask about the progress made on approving an honorary
member....honorary members have to be "approved" by
HQ. He talked to a secretary, and SHE said that SHE
approved the application and sent a response yesterday
It's just paperwork.]

There's alot of inconsistencies at HQ as well (or at least
there used to be). When I was involved with the Vandy
colony, we obviously had alot of contact with HQ (more
than the regular chapter).

We discovered that if you called HQ to ask about something,
and got an answer you didn't like, that you should call
the next day, ask someone ELSE the same question,
and you'll get a different answer. Keep calling until you
get the answer you want! They tend to make up rules
as they go, especially on narrowly-focused, unique
questions.

Case in point: I was in grad school at Vandy. Our constitution
says grad students can choose to be alum or active, though
its a bit vague. The colony officers asked me if I would
become active (for various reasons). Reading the constitution,
I wasn't sure exactly how that worked.

So I called HQ. The first time I was told that grad students
can only be active if its at the same Zeta as their undergrad
(I wasn't).

The second time I called, I was told you could only be active
for 8 semesters, and since I had already done that, I
couldn't be active at Vandy. I said "I was only active for
6 semesters as an undergrad" (deferred rush back then,
only sophomores and above could rush). He said,
OK, then you can be active for 2 semesters then.

The third time I called, I was told as long as the colony went
through the same process to "give me a bid," I could be
active as long as they/I wanted. We liked that answer,
so we took it

[Tom Earp]

O M G Kev to funny to be beleived!


But, truth is probably stranger than fact!

Here again with the over worked staff of some great ladies it is tough I am sure.

But, those working there do a heck of a job.

If you made the trip to IHQ at GA then you would understand about them working their rears off to get it presentable!

[JoinerLxa]

Oh, I didn't say the secretaries don't work hard or do good
work....on the contrary, my insinuation was that they run
the place! Something I've found true almost everywhere
I've worked/learned!

And with the Vandy/active-grad-student question, NONE of
the three I talked to were secretaries...all three were
ELC's or Dir. Chap. Svcs. or some such (brothers).

[GammaZeta]

What I think IHQ should do is simply disband, keep a small office for the Grand High Alpha, and regionalize all operations with small offices all over. With today's technology, 6, 7, 8 or 9 offices across the USA would make everything more personalized and probably more efficient. Then the regional ELC would know about the chapters they visit, do updates, etc. Recruitment would also most likely be more effective. Paperwork would be more consistent. After all, LXA is a pretty vast corperation with alot of interests spread all over the USA. It only makes sense to have regional offices.

[JoinerLxa]

It would end up costing alot of $$$ to do that...having to
maintain 8 small offices is more expensive and would probably
require more staff than maintain a central office. That's why
so many large corporations, like banks, MERGE....overhead
costs go down when you centralize.

But the idea of regional directors (along with a central office)
is a good one....in fact, before the "stock market crash",
our IHQ was already setting those up. But when the money
went bye-bye, so did the regional offices and directors,
the ones that had been established anyway.

Now if the chapters want more service from IHQ, and
want more visits from an ELC, the solution is simple:
double or triple national dues!

A proposal for the 2006 GA:
"Dues shall be tripled and the number of visits from ELC's
shall double; each ELC visit shall be extended to a full
week (7 days)....so there will be an ELC at your chapter
14 days out of the year."

I bet that one would get a unanimous vote!!

ADDENDUM: ELC shall always visit during I-week and the
presence of an ELC shall always be required at every initiation.
(woo hoo!)

[justaflaneur]

The authority to approve honorary initiations rests with the Grand High Zeta under Article VI, Section 4. I can't speak to the process followed prior to the 2002 GA, but I can assure you that today these applications are "processed" by the staff at Headquarters, but "approved" by the Grand High Pi. I reviewed and approved two such applications just last week.

In ZAX,
Lynn Chipperfield