Is Barak Obama speaking Bill Cosby's words?

[Rudey]

It's not my battle but I figured some people might be interested in it. Anyway discuss.

Breaking the Silence
By HENRY LOUIS GATES JR.

Published: August 1, 2004


Go into any inner-city neighborhood," Barack Obama said in his keynote address to the Democratic National Convention, "and folks will tell you that government alone can't teach kids to learn. They know that parents have to parent, that children can't achieve unless we raise their expectations and eradicate the slander that says a black youth with a book is acting white." In a speech filled with rousing applause lines, it was a line that many black Democratic delegates found especially galvanizing. Not just because they agreed, but because it was a home truth they'd seldom heard a politician say out loud.

Why has it been so difficult for black leaders to say such things in public, without being pilloried for "blaming the victim"? Why the huge flap over Bill Cosby's insistence that black teenagers do their homework, stay in school, master standard English and stop having babies? Any black person who frequents a barbershop or beauty parlor in the inner city knows that Mr. Cosby was only echoing sentiments widely shared in the black community.

"If our people studied calculus like we studied basketball," my father, age 91, once remarked as we drove past a packed inner-city basketball court at midnight, "we'd be running M.I.T." When my brother and I were growing up in the 50's, our parents convinced us that the "blackest" thing that we could be was a doctor or a lawyer. We admired Hank Aaron and Willie Mays, but our real heroes were people like Thurgood Marshall, Dr. Benjamin Mays and Mary McLeod Bethune.

Yet in too many black neighborhoods today, academic achievement has actually come to be stigmatized. "We are just not the same people anymore," says the mayor of Memphis, Dr. Willie W. Herenton. "We are worse off than we were before Brown v. Board," says Dr. James Comer, a child psychiatrist at Yale. "And a large part of the reason for this is that we have abandoned our own black traditional core values, values that sustained us through slavery and Jim Crow segregation."

Making it, as Mr. Obama told me, "requires diligent effort and deferred gratification. Everybody sitting around their kitchen table knows that."

"Americans suffer from anti-intellectualism, starting in the White House," Mr. Obama went on. "Our people can least afford to be anti-intellectual." Too many of our children have come to believe that it's easier to become a black professional athlete than a doctor or lawyer. Reality check: according to the 2000 census, there were more than 31,000 black physicians and surgeons, 33,000 black lawyers and 5,000 black dentists. Guess how many black athletes are playing professional basketball, football and baseball combined. About 1,400. In fact, there are more board-certified black cardiologists than there are black professional basketball players. "We talk about leaving no child behind," says Dena Wallerson, a sociologist at Connecticut College. "The reality is that we are allowing our own children to be left behind." Nearly a third of black children are born into poverty. The question is: why?

Scholars such as my Harvard colleague William Julius Wilson say that the causes of black poverty are both structural and behavioral. Think of structural causes as "the devil made me do it," and behavioral causes as "the devil is in me." Structural causes are faceless systemic forces, like the disappearance of jobs. Behavioral causes are self-destructive life choices and personal habits. To break the conspiracy of silence, we have to address both of these factors.

"A lot of us," Mr. Obama argues, "hesitate to discuss these things in public because we think that if we do so it lets the larger society off the hook. We're stuck in an either/or mentality - that the problem is either societal or it's cultural."

It's important to talk about life chances - about the constricted set of opportunities that poverty brings. But to treat black people as if they're helpless rag dolls swept up and buffeted by vast social trends - as if they had no say in the shaping of their lives - is a supreme act of condescension. Only 50 percent of all black children graduate from high school; an estimated 64 percent of black teenage girls will become pregnant. (Black children raised by female "householders" are five times as likely to live in poverty as those raised by married couples.) Are white racists forcing black teenagers to drop out of school or to have babies?

Mr. Cosby got a lot of flak for complaining about children who couldn't speak standard English. Yet it isn't a derogation of the black vernacular - a marvelously rich and inventive tongue - to point out that there's a language of the marketplace, too, and learning to speak that language has generally been a precondition for economic success, whoever you are. When we let black youth become monolingual, we've limited their imaginative and economic possibilities.

These issues can be ticklish, no question, but they're badly served by silence or squeamishness. Mr. Obama showed how to get the balance right. We've got to create as many opportunities as we can for the worst-off - and "make sure that every child in America has a decent shot at life." But values matter, too. We can't talk about the choices people have without talking about the choices people make.

Reaad the rest at http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/01/op...1gates.html?hp

-Rudey

[TheEpitome1920]

Originally posted by Rudey


"A lot of us," Mr. Obama argues, "hesitate to discuss these things in public because we think that if we do so it lets the larger society off the hook. We're stuck in an either/or mentality - that the problem is either societal or it's cultural."

What Bill Cosby and Obama have been saying is nothing new to us. It's just a shock to White folks. I think some people believe that since there are Black people(Condi, Colin, and Rod) in high positions in the White House all is well. Don't let 'em fool you, we have not gotten to the Promised Land, yet.

[Munchkin03]

I still don't understand why Bill Cosby's words were so controversial. I grew up hearing the same things! The "mainstream" press considered his words "divisive," while "black" sources seemed to be more bored with it than anything.

Obama is right on target with his view that Americans are, for the most part, anti-intellectual.

[hoosier]

Maybe Bush- Cheney will offer Barack Obama some important job after they are re-elected.

[TheEpitome1920]

*passes out at the thought of Bush/Cheney being re-elected*

[sigtau305]

Originally posted by TheEpitome1920
*passes out at the thought of Bush/Cheney being re-elected*

*Fanning some air for Epitome 1920*

I got to hear some of Obama's speech. I do agree that He was on point.

I honestly think Obama's and Cosby's opinions apply to everyone, not just a certain race or group of people. I honestly think everyone should try harder.

[GRhinoUK]

Cosby and Obama have hit the nail square on the head.

Some of my friends and I have spent our youths paying the cost of anti-intellectualism in the black community. In my case specifically I paid the price in seperation from other blacks. When I was young I was constatly made fun of for being "white" because I was well-spoken and intellectual. On top of this I was from a family that was doing pretty well financially, as a result I lived in a "white" area of town. One result of this was most of my friends being white. (There are many other factors of how I was raised but those don't apply as strongly.) This never went over very well in school. It was a good day if I was only called a "sell out" or "white" once or twice. This was all in late elementary and early middle school when I was bussed across town to go to some of the better schools in the district, most of which were located in "black" areas of town. By the time I graduated middle school I was convinced black people hated me. The only good that came out of this was my realization that if black people didn't like me and white people would never fully accept me, then everyone must be pretty much equal and should be treated as such. As a result I picked my friends on terms of character and similarity to myself, skin was never a factor. By the time I graduated high school I was very distant from most of my black peers. But what has got to bother me the most is that even in college I see many of the same attitudes continuing to thrive. I still see the glances and hear what people say behind my back. I love how so many educated blacks still hold onto the same bad ideas they had when they were younger. The perfect example was my freshman year living with two other black guys; we got along great at home but in public they never wanted to associate with me cause I was too white-seeming. I love how there are so few of us in college to begin with and as you advance the numbers grow fewer and fewer. There is so much ot over come that if we do not start early and change our way of thinking, we will never do it.

Tupac said it best in "Changes" when he said "We gotta make a change...
It's time for us as a people to start makin' some changes.
Let's change the way we eat, let's change the way we live
and let's change the way we treat each other.
You see the old way wasn't working so it's on us to do
what we gotta do, to survive." Funny how many people love(d) that song but never hear(d) what it says.

[GRhinoUK]

Completely forgot to mention my best friend's side. Long story short, he used to get beat up. He lived in the same neighborhood wiht his tomentors so they used to find him outside of school, kick his ass and break his CDs if he was listening to "white" music when they found him.

[TheEpitome1920]

Originally posted by GRhinoUK
Cosby and Obama have hit the nail square on the head.

Some of my friends and I have spent our youths paying the cost of anti-intellectualism in the black community. In my case specifically I paid the price in seperation from other blacks. When I was young I was constatly made fun of for being "white" because I was well-spoken and intellectual. On top of this I was from a family that was doing pretty well financially, as a result I lived in a "white" area of town. One result of this was most of my friends being white. (There are many other factors of how I was raised but those don't apply as strongly.) This never went over very well in school. It was a good day if I was only called a "sell out" or "white" once or twice. This was all in late elementary and early middle school when I was bussed across town to go to some of the better schools in the district, most of which were located in "black" areas of town. By the time I graduated middle school I was convinced black people hated me. The only good that came out of this was my realization that if black people didn't like me and white people would never fully accept me, then everyone must be pretty much equal and should be treated as such. As a result I picked my friends on terms of character and similarity to myself, skin was never a factor. By the time I graduated high school I was very distant from most of my black peers. But what has got to bother me the most is that even in college I see many of the same attitudes continuing to thrive. I still see the glances and hear what people say behind my back. I love how so many educated blacks still hold onto the same bad ideas they had when they were younger. The perfect example was my freshman year living with two other black guys; we got along great at home but in public they never wanted to associate with me cause I was too white-seeming. I love how there are so few of us in college to begin with and as you advance the numbers grow fewer and fewer. There is so much ot over come that if we do not start early and change our way of thinking, we will never do it.

Tupac said it best in "Changes" when he said "We gotta make a change...
It's time for us as a people to start makin' some changes.
Let's change the way we eat, let's change the way we live
and let's change the way we treat each other.
You see the old way wasn't working so it's on us to do
what we gotta do, to survive." Funny how many people love(d) that song but never hear(d) what it says.

Did you ever engage in conversation with your Black peers about this? Or did you allow them to ridicule you and say nothing? I also experienced the 'acting' or 'talking' White comments. However, I did not allow that to dictate my friendships and relationship with the Black community...

[Love_Spell_6]

Originally posted by TheEpitome1920
What Bill Cosby and Obama have been saying is nothing new to us. It's just a shock to White folks. I think some people believe that since there are Black people(Condi, Colin, and Rod) in high positions in the White House all is well. Don't let 'em fool you, we have not gotten to the Promised Land, yet.

This sounds good, but its not true. Its not shocking to many white folks, its just that they can't publicly say these things because though they'd be telling the truth, they'd be ran out of town and called racists. Its no secret that our community has been on the decline for a while, its just that now prominent black leaders are starting to speak out about it...and in MANY circles they are not being received well. Take Greek Chat for instance. I have been called Uncomfortable in My Own Skin....and all types of things because I refuse to let folks blame "whitey" for their problems while skirting responsibility. I've been told I shouldn't say the things I say in mixed company or shouldn't air our dirty laundry (this means shouldn't talk about this stuff in the ear shot of white folks). I said all that to say that many people just don't want to hear the truth..unless it coincides with what they believe.

And lastly, I think its so sad that because people disagree with the policies of Condoleeza Rice, Colon Powell and Rod Paige, that they refer to them as tokens or insignificant. Some black folks don't want to admit that Bush has opened more doors for black folks in his 4 years than the Dems have in the last 8! Its funny, when black people hold positions for the first time, its usually celebrated..but since they're EVIL REPUBLICANS, they're demonized.

[TheEpitome1920]

Originally posted by Love_Spell_6
This sounds good, but its not true. Its not shocking to many white folks, its just that they can't publicly say these things because though they'd be telling the truth, they'd be ran out of town and called racists. Its no secret that our community has been on the decline for a while, its just that now prominent black leaders are starting to speak out about it...and in MANY circles they are not being received well. Take Greek Chat for instance. I have been called Uncomfortable in My Own Skin....and all types of things because I refuse to let folks blame "whitey" for their problems while skirting responsibility. I've been told I shouldn't say the things I say in mixed company or shouldn't air our dirty laundry (this means shouldn't talk about this stuff in the ear shot of white folks). I said all that to say that many people just don't want to hear the truth..unless it coincides with what they believe.

And lastly, I think its so sad that because people disagree with the policies of Condoleeza Rice, Colon Powell and Rod Paige, that they refer to them as tokens or insignificant. Some black folks don't want to admit that Bush has opened more doors for black folks in his 4 years than the Dems have in the last 8! Its funny, when black people hold positions for the first time, its usually celebrated..but since they're EVIL REPUBLICANS, they're demonized.

I don't think our community is on the decline. Saying that is denying the work that organizations (and individuals) like mine do on a daily basis. I don't care that Condi, Colin or Rod (who is my fraternity brother) are Republicans. I just think they don't speak unless spoken to.

[Reds6]

Originally posted by TheEpitome1920
Did you ever engage in conversation with your Black peers about this? Or did you allow them to ridicule you and say nothing? I also experienced the 'acting' or 'talking' White comments. However, I did not allow that to dictate my friendships and relationship with the Black community...

Co-sign, I grew up hearing the "speaking white comments", living in mostly white neighborhoods and SOME blacks not wanting to associate with me because of where I lived. But I continued to engage with my people and not judge or turn my backs on them, because when you condemn those that taunt you, you become just as bad as they are. My family also kept me aware of who i was and the struggles that our people have endured.

[Love_Spell_6]

Originally posted by TheEpitome1920
I don't think our community is on the decline. Saying that is denying the work that organizations (and individuals) like mine do on a daily basis. I don't care that Condi, Colin or Rod (who is my fraternity brother) are Republicans. I just think they don't speak unless spoken to.

Well you don't "think" the community is on the decline..I'm talking about facts.

"The black family has crumbled more in the last 30 years than it did in the entire 14 decades since slavery." Dr. Julian Hare. Dir. - San Francisco Black Think Tank.

Please visit www.saveus.org and take a look at the Portrait of the Black family. I quote this website often because though its not a pretty picture of our community, it lays out factual info. If you question the stats, research them on your own...but you won't find significant differences in these figures.

They don't speak unless spoken to? So what should they be doing? HOlding press conferences?

[xo_kathy]

My fiance and I were talking about this last night. He thinks the "acting white" stigma has gotten worse in the last 10 years or so. He is Puerto Rican and grew up in the South Bronx. He did excellent in school and was a "golden chid" to the teachers. He then attended Cornell. However, he never had anyone accuse him of acting "white". He said people - adults and his peers - we're very proud of him. He has some nephews now who are in their early 20's and he thinks they hold themsleves back because they don't want to seem like they are "selling out". He's trying to mentor them and it seems to be working for one, but not so much the other...