holocaust survivors sue Bush family over Nazi ties

[IowaStatePhiPsi]

hmm... The Guardian is a little too tabloid-ish for my nature, so I'm taking this with a grain of salt and noting to myself that nobody should be judged based on the sins of their grandfather (my grandfather made his $ on bootlegging).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/...312540,00.html

The two Holocaust survivors suing the US government and the Bush family for a total of $40bn in compensation claim both materially benefited from Auschwitz slave labour during the second world war.

Kurt Julius Goldstein, 87, and Peter Gingold, 85, began a class action in America in 2001, but the case was thrown out by Judge Rosemary Collier on the grounds that the government cannot be held liable under the principle of "state sovereignty".

In their claims, Mr Goldstein and Mr Gingold, honorary chairman of the League of Anti-fascists, suggest the Americans were aware of what was happening at Auschwitz and should have bombed the camp.

The lawyers also filed a motion in The Hague asking for an opinion on whether state sovereignty is a valid reason for refusing to hear their case. A ruling is expected within a month.

The petition to The Hague states: "From April 1944 on, the American Air Force could have destroyed the camp with air raids, as well as the railway bridges and railway lines from Hungary to Auschwitz. The murder of about 400,000 Hungarian Holocaust victims could have been prevented."

The case is built around a January 22 1944 executive order signed by President Franklin Roosevelt calling on the government to take all measures to rescue the European Jews. The lawyers claim the order was ignored because of pressure brought by a group of big American companies, including BBH, where Prescott Bush was a director.

[Rudey]

Can you please stop jumping on the backs of other people's suffering so you can spread your filth?? You are the last person to ever comment on anything with Jews after the remarks you've made.

-Rudey

[_Q_]

Originally posted by IowaStatePhiPsi
hmm... The Guardian is a little too tabloid-ish for my nature, so I'm taking this with a grain of salt and noting to myself that nobody should be judged based on the sins of their grandfather (my grandfather made his $ on bootlegging).
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/...312540,00.html

Yeah, one thing that made me uneasy was the claim that the Allies should have bombed the camps - that could have killed the Jewish prisoners also. Another uncomfortable issue is that there's a lot of investment in countries where there are serious human rights violations. I'm by no means a Bush supporter, but this doesn't seem appreciably worse than some of the other 20th century corporate activity.

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by _Q_
Yeah, one thing that made me uneasy was the claim that the Allies should have bombed the camps - that could have killed the Jewish prisoners also.

Could have killed Jewish prisoners? It would have killed Jewish prisoners, but it still would have been the humane thing to do. Nazi concentration camps were assembly lines of death fed by a modern rail distribution system. Humane action on genocide always becomes an accounting problem. What will result in fewer deaths? Inaction or violent intervention? The latter would have resulted in fewer deaths. This was brought to the attention by FDR, and he chose inaction.

Originally posted by _Q_ Another uncomfortable issue is that there's a lot of investment in countries where there are serious human rights violations. I'm by no means a Bush supporter, but this doesn't seem appreciably worse than some of the other 20th century corporate activity.

Generally, direct corporate investment in countries with "serious human rights violations" is the only way to move these countries forward. Without investment, no middle class will emerge. Without a middle class, no effective force will emerge to challange these regimes.

Nazi Germany was different because they did have an educated middle class. Once it became apparent what was going on, there was no excuse. The standard has to be investment that was initiated after the oppression began.

[James]

Just to add a slight modicum of something positive about the Germans, I had relatives in Germany that hid Jews fleeing the country. So not all Germans were bad, just the vast majority.

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by James
Just to add a slight modicum of something positive about the Germans, I had relatives in Germany that hid Jews fleeing the country. So not all Germans were bad, just the vast majority.

Its not that Germans were bad. Its that they had no real tradition of democracy, and when a wicked depression hit, a demagogue was able to take power. There was a tradition of intolerance in southern Germany, but a strong tradition of tolerance in northern Germany, and especially in Prussia. It should come as no surprise that Hitler was from the South.

What worries me about Germany is that they eradicated Prussian culture, due to its militarism. Prussian culture was the one part of German culture that embraced ethnic diversity. They got rid of that. Southern germany, the part with an ancient history of virulent anti-Semitism that never abated, became the wealthier part of Germany after WWII. Germany is still searching for its identity. Money talks, and I fear that Bavarian culture will become dominant.

As the US begins its pullout from Europe, the Europeans will have to grow up and take care of themselves. Germany will be at the center of this, and it scares me.

[James]

Thats why we should keep some military presence there

Originally posted by PhiPsiRuss

As the US begins its pullout from Europe, the Europeans will have to grow up and take care of themselves. Germany will be at the center of this, and it scares me.

[Optimist Prime]

I was just being a smart ass when I called Bush a Nazi. Wow.

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by Optimist Prime
I was just being a smart ass when I called Bush a Nazi. Wow.

Yeah, and the Guardian was just making shit up when THEY called Bush a Nazi.

[Kevin]

Originally posted by KSig RC
Yeah, and the Guardian was just making shit up when THEY called Bush a Nazi.

Kerry used to be for the truth, but now he's against it.

[Optimist Prime]

The spirit of George Washington will help decide how to vote. That means I will flip a coin.

[AOII_LB93]

Originally posted by PhiPsiRuss
It should come as no surprise that Hitler was from the South.

Actually Hitler was Austrian (born in the town of Braunau), he just rose to power in the southern part of Germany first.

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by AOII_LB93
Actually Hitler was Austrian (born in the town of Braunau), he just rose to power in the southern part of Germany first.

That was my point. Sorry if I didn't clarify, but when I said that he came from the South, I meant politically.