So very sad...

[GammaZeta]

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,...453690,00.html

If there are any current LXA members, or alumni very involved in their local chapter, please read that article.

Gordie could very well be alive if just one, JUST ONE, brother had enough common sense to say "Stop It."

You may have to be that brother someday that stands against everyone else and stops something like this.

[JonoBN41]

Of course one guy could have stopped it. Gordie Bailey.

[GammaZeta]

Agreed. But I've seen this situation before (although not with the same results). Sometimes a freshman really doesn't know what his limit is in alcohol, or maybe he didn't know about walking away, or maybe he was even too afraid to do so.

The guy was a newly initiated brother, I wouldn't expect to rely on his judgement.

From my experiences, most incidents in fraternities, or even other aspects of college life, could easily be avoidable if someone simply took a second to think through the consequences of their actions.

I just wanted to stress that in a fraternity of 30, 40 or 90 guys, it is very difficult to step up and do the right thing and go against everyone else. But guys, DO IT, or something like this just may happen to your chapter.

I'm telling you, having your chapter pi$$ed off at you for a couple days is much better than having to defend yourself for years in a court of law.

[JonoBN41]

I understand your sentiments, but I feel that a lot of these recent incidents have their roots in the change in the drinking age. When I was a kid the drinking age was 18. We regularly went out to bars in high school. When we came home to the folks, we'd better have our wits about us. If someone had to lead you (or carry you) in the house...well... let's just say there would be questions the next morning. Early.

Can you imagine never having taken an SAT or Final Exam in high school? In college you'd be lost. What the hell's going on?

Same with drinking. If the age is 21 and you had no experience, it's the same thing. Simply put, you don't know the limits and you don't know how to handle it.

How many self-drinking deaths were there in the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s? Not many if any.

It seems we're sending babes into the wilderness with no preparation whatsoever, because the preparation is illegal. It's paramount to sending a recruit into battle with an M-16 and not training him how to use it properly.

Now we are seeing the results.

That kid is dead because of policy and parents who didn't have a clue. I saw both sets of those parents on TV the other day. They were sad he died, but otherwise were clueless.

Naturally, they blamed the fraternity, the school, the state, the.....

Jono

[sageofages]

Originally posted by JonoBN41
I understand your sentiments, but I feel that a lot of these recent incidents have their roots in the change in the drinking age. When I was a kid the drinking age was 18. We regularly went out to bars in high school. When we came home to the folks, we'd better have our wits about us. If someone had to lead you (or carry you) in the house...well... let's just say there would be questions the next morning. Early.

Can you imagine never having taken an SAT or Final Exam in high school? In college you'd be lost. What the hell's going on?

Same with drinking. If the age is 21 and you had no experience, it's the same thing. Simply put, you don't know the limits and you don't know how to handle it.

How many self-drinking deaths were there in the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s? Not many if any.

It seems we're sending babes into the wilderness with no preparation whatsoever, because the preparation is illegal. It's paramount to sending a recruit into battle with an M-16 and not training him how to use it properly.

Now we are seeing the results.

That kid is dead because of policy and parents who didn't have a clue. I saw both sets of those parents on TV the other day. They were sad he died, but otherwise were clueless.

Naturally, they blamed the fraternity, the school, the state, the.....

Jono

What you are proposing??? "training wheels" for drinking?? Beginner classes in high school???

Even rational adults can forget their limits once they are over the edge of intoxication...(yes yes I speak from experience !)

[JonoBN41]

I'm proposing responsibility.

[JonoBN41]

Or to put it more succinctly (sp?) I will borrow a fellow brother's signature quote:

However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results. -- Sir Winston Churchill

Jono

[SniffDNZ098]

the one that gets me is that why should a person decide who should be the president or major political issues, but they cannot take a sip of alcohol?

they are allowed to vote on what hte country does, but not drink.

I think that it was better when the drinking age was 18. Less problems

[GammaZeta]

I somewhat agree Jono. Although from what I have experienced, there is very heavy drinking in high schools already. But in high school drinking is not a responsible type. Usually you are in the woods or at some illegal party binge drinking as much as possible before the cops or parents come home. When I turned 21 my drinking habits changed alot. Instead of just trying to get drunk I started to enjoy different beers, appreciated micro-brews etc.

I still don't really understand how someone can serve in the military, vote, pay taxes, smoke cigarettes, and do everything except drink legally.

Just my opinion.

[boz130]

Don't forget the friendly, helpful alumni advisors who have their butts on the line and might get that that infamous 2AM phone call. Whether you're the High Pi or a member of the alumni board, we're all technically liable for this s*it.

Yep, that's right...guys who've been out of school for 20+ years can be sued because someone (male or female) that's probably the same age as their own kids can cause lawsuits to land on the alum's doorstep. If I recall the Arizona State fiasco, didn't the woman who died just stop by the LCA house (no drinking was involved, she just wandered in)?

I wonder...how many alums that AREN'T involved stay away because of this? No pun intended, but that's a sobering thought.

ZAX,
BF

[Tom Earp]

I cannot agree more about the Laws on drinking having changed the habits of young people.

The States were blackmailed by the Federal Goverment years back with Funds held from States about the same time as speed laws were reduced.

I have been in two businesses, Liquor and Tobacco, 21 for Liquor and 18 for Tobacco.

Once again, both of these businesses have been black mailed by the Federal Govt.

Agree, if one can vote for some moron to run the country along with the legislative henchmen and got to the many Hot Spots where there may not be wars but are still dieing then what is the problem with this picture?

Oh for those that sat in the meeting of the General Assembly, one of the Amendments was to have no tobacco products in Chapter houses. It was vetoed by the members!

It also paid my way there to see Brothers from GC that I have talked with or have seen on GC and never ment. Many of us were out side having a puff or a chaw!

A lot of interaction went on outside of the Hotel!

So when do we regulate morality in perpatutity?

The old adage, just say NO and They will do!

[JoinerLxa]

I'd always heard that if you're 18-21 and in the military,
it IS legal for you to drink.....as long as its on base or you
get it from the post commissary or something like that.

Maybe some brother with recent military exp. can clear that
up.

I have mixed views on the drinking age. The effect of lowering/
raising it really depends on the culture. Like in Germany,
little kids get beer (I've even heard of it being put in baby
bottles). They grow up knowing when enough is enough.
They laugh at US kids who think "underage drinking is COOL!"
and you can't have a party without beer.

Just image a small town in Utah, all Mormon, who don't drink
caffeine or carbonation. Some high school kids sneak out
of the house, sneak into the store and buy a 6-pack.....
of Pepsi! Then they sneak off in the woods to drink it.
They're so COOL! Thats how some Euro.s look at us LOL.

But then again, who cares what the French think!

[JoinerLxa]

All the talk about drinking laws made me think of a "loophole"
that was used at Vanderbilt from the mid 70's until about 1990.

TN state law states it is OK for an 18-20 y.o. to drink IF:
- the alcohol was provided by the parent
- the parent supervises the drinking
- the drinking was done at home or on private property

Ever heard of "In Loco Parentis"?? LATIN means "local parents",
legal description of the relationship between a college and
its students. Basically means that while a kid is in college and
on campus, the college admin can legally act as the student's
PARENT. I think this was originally intended to allow school
officials to check students into a hospital, make campus rules
that aren't state law, etc.

Well, when the new 21 drinking age went into effect, Vandy's
admin found a new application for "In Loco Parentis"!

Since Vandy admin acts as a student's parent, and since Vandy's
campus is private property (a private, not state-run school),
it is therefore legal for 18-20 y.o. Vandy students to drink
as long as:
- it is provided by the admin (their local parent).
- it is supervised by the admin (their local parent).
- it is at home or on private propterty (campus is local home
and is private propterty).

So from the mid-70's until about 1990, every year for
Spring Fling, Vandy admin bought truck loads of beer,
parked them on library lawn, and opened the doors....
any student 18 and older could have all they wanted.
It was a party, to say the least!

"The Law" agreed with Vandy's interpretation and let it
go on for years. Until the Red Hot Chili Pepper's concert....
bunch of 18-21 yo college students...outside at a
Pepper's concert...drunk as can be...one of the band
members urinates on the crowd...massive fight breaks out....
state troopers called in to break it up.....state govt decides
to change its interpretation of law and In Loco Parentis....
no more free/legal beer at Spring Fling for 18-20 yo's.

Just goes to show, only takes one idiot to mess up a
"good thing" for everybody....even if he is a Chili Pepper