Guy who helped keep Bush out of Vietnam to talk

IowaStatePhiPsi · #1 09-01-2004, 10:48 PM

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/20.../index_np.html

Ben Barnes, the former lieutenant governor of Texas, will finally break his silence and talk to the press about what role he played in helping Bush get a coveted slot in the Texas Air National Guard in 1968. Sources say Barnes has already sat down for a "60 Minutes" interview that will air a week from Sunday. A "60 Minutes" spokesperson declined to comment, saying the program does not discuss reports that are in progress.

DeltAlum · #2 09-01-2004, 10:56 PM

Some of us have said all along that this is undoubdetly how President Bush got into the National Guard.

You are welcome to feel however you choose.

But to repeat what I've said before, he's not alone. It was not at all uncommon for influential people to use their clout to get their sons into the Guard and out of the Draft.

Rudey · #3 09-01-2004, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by IowaStatePhiPsi
Propoghanda

Who was the guy that helped Kerry get out of Vietnam after 4 months?

-Rudey

honeychile · #4 09-01-2004, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DeltAlum
Some of us have said all along that this is undoubdetly how President Bush got into the National Guard.

You are welcome to feel however you choose.

But to repeat what I've said before, he's not alone. It was not at all uncommon for influential people to use their clout to get their sons into the Guard and out of the Draft.

Cosign.

I've been told that my parents sent a telegram to President Nixon to try to keep my brother out of Viet Nam! This after letters from their Congressmen, doctors, family, etc didn't work.

DeltAlum · #5 09-01-2004, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
Who was the guy that helped Kerry get out of Vietnam after 4 months?

-Rudey

I think it had something to do with three Purple Hearts.

Rudey · #6 09-01-2004, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DeltAlum
I think it had something to do with three Purple Hearts.

So since you can get purple hearts even from friendly fire, and Kerry got small wounds and cuts, he was allowed to leave Vietnam after 4 months?

-Rudey

RACooper · #7 09-01-2004, 11:28 PM

From what I understand if you recieve 3 purple hearts, which are given for combat operations, you have the option of being posted away from combat zones...

DeltAlum · #8 09-01-2004, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
So since you can get purple hearts even from friendly fire, and Kerry got small wounds and cuts, he was allowed to leave Vietnam after 4 months?

-Rudey

If those were the rules, sure. As I said before, there were guys holding their hands up during incoming in hopes of getting a finger shot off and getting sent home. Also guys shooting their own toes off.

At least, according to confirmed accounts, Kerry participated in real honest-to-God firefights and apparantely did pretty well.

The accounts of him turning into ambushes are pretty compelling, since that was the tactic they taught us as early as ROTC. The natural reaction is to go the other way and find cover. Problem is that the VC would set an ambush on the opposite side of the trail as well -- and you were screwed.

The doctrine was to turn into the ambush and (hopefully) use superior firepower to break it up.

To me, the Kerry story rings true.

End of mini hijack.

Rudey · #9 09-01-2004, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DeltAlum
If those were the rules, sure. As I said before, there were guys holding their hands up during incoming in hopes of getting a finger shot off and getting sent home. Also guys shooting their own toes off.

At least, according to confirmed accounts, Kerry participated in real honest-to-God firefights and apparantely did pretty well.

The accounts of him turning into ambushes are pretty compelling, since that was the tactic they taught us as early as ROTC. The natural reaction is to go the other way and find cover. Problem is that the VC would set an ambush on the opposite side of the trail as well -- and you were screwed.

The doctrine was to turn into the ambush and (hopefully) use superior firepower to break it up.

To me, the Kerry story rings true.

End of mini hijack.

Again, I don't discount Kerry's honor. I don't think he was the greatest in Vietnam and was far from it - just like anyone that got their finger shot off to leave and just like anyone who served in the National Guard.

I still think both of these politicians got out easier than they would have had it not been for family connections.

-Rudey

RACooper · #10 09-01-2004, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DeltAlum
The accounts of him turning into ambushes are pretty compelling, since that was the tactic they taught us as early as ROTC. The natural reaction is to go the other way and find cover. Problem is that the VC would set an ambush on the opposite side of the trail as well -- and you were screwed.

The doctrine was to turn into the ambush and (hopefully) use superior firepower to break it up.

To me, the Kerry story rings true.

End of mini hijack.

The point of an ambush is to trap the target in pre-planned zones of fire that rob the target of protection or the ability to effectively stike back... and to cover the targets lines of retreat.

That tactic is still the one taught... the best way to counter and ambush is to attack and charge through the ambushers... firepower is great but once you have lost mobility or initative the enemy controls the battle, and you are dead.