The Looting of Iraq

RACooper · #1 08-11-2004, 11:57 PM

As a student of history and archaeology this is an aspect of the conflict in Iraq that has always intrigued or troubled me:

The looting of not only the Iraqi national Museum, but of in effect the whole of Iraq, robbing the world of important historical context to interpret our past.

The CBC aired a documentary examining the issue, exploring the various players: organized looting squads, international dealers, defenders of the artifacts, and the scholars researching the crime.

Link to some info from CBC on documentary:
http://www.cbc.ca/cbcworldwide/robbingthecradle/

I did find somethings interesting, such as who the major international players/traders are: #1 Israel with government licences (unfortunately fronted by a Canadian/Israeli citizen), #2 British traders under the table, #3 Switzerland "cleansing" the artifacts, and #4 Jordan the main point of departure.

Also interesting was the US decision to only defend "Biblical" sites with military forces; showing perhaps that even in the secular "West" allows religion to colour policy. It was kind of sad to see the US Colonel shocked to be told that Nippur was only a short drive from his base... and that it was one of the oldest cities in the world, and the place where writing, accounting, civil law, architecture, and empircal science was first recorded. I say sad because his major was Middle Eastern History... and that his response was somthing along the lines of: Nippur? Are you sure it's important? I don't think it's mentioned in the Bible...

Equally disturbing was the protestaions of Iraqi guards, who begged to be allowed to carry weapons to defend historic sites, as well as themselves from gangs of looters. Or of the image of Iraqi police, who while guarding another site, offering priceless artifacts to the journalists making the documentary. Or of the "photo-op" where the museum was opened for a day, journalists invited in, and "recovered" pieces on display again.. while in reality the pieces on display were actually locked away for protection by Sadam in the first Gulf War, and the museum was closed the next day, and the US Colonel investigating the looting was reasigned back to the US and his team disolved.

But I digress, I believe more needs to be done to prosecute these people who have participated in the looting of Iraq, as these people are not only commiting a "war crime" (if done during war), or at the very least an international crime; but they are robbing the world of the untold knowledge of the past, but robbing the Iraqi people of their heritage. The US and Israel need to be reminded that they signed the 1970 UNESCO act prohibiting the sale of looted artifacts, and prosectute their citizens who violate this act... and go after the private collectors who have knowingly bought the looted material.

DeltAlum · #2 08-12-2004, 10:20 AM

Unfortunately, that's one of the traditional problems of war. This isn't the first, and certainly not the exception.

As for the US Colonel's lack of the knowledge you mention -- I wouldn't have known any of that either. It's not something that has ever been a part of my experience or education. There's a lot of history to study, and not eveyone studies every facet.

And since not all of us are students of archeology, you may have to just excuse our ignorance. That probably goes to a fair number of top allied commanders who did their best to protect what they understood with a finite number of troops.

RACooper · #3 08-12-2004, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DeltAlum
Unfortunately, that's one of the traditional problems of war. This isn't the first, and certainly not the exception.

As for the US Colonel's lack of the knowledge you mention -- I wouldn't have known any of that either. It's not something that has ever been a part of my experience or education. There's a lot of history to study, and not eveyone studies every facet.

And since not all of us are students of archeology, you may have to just excuse our ignorance. That probably goes to a fair number of top allied commanders who did their best to protect what they understood with a finite number of troops.

Well I do realise that the looting has always been a problem, I had hoped given the history of the region that more care would have been taken to protect sites... admittedly not all 10000+ registered archaeological sites but at least the larger or more significant sites.

My issue with the Colonel that was interviewed about the looting and destruction of sites in his immediate area was the fact that he was the one that said he was a student of Middle Eastern Civilizations, and proudly showed off the collection of books he brought with him on the subject... and yet his knowledge turned out to be very select, covering only that which had a Biblical connection, or at least that was the impresion given by his account.

As for the selection of protected sites... I would say that it'd have been more important to select sites based on more than their Bibilical significance... but on culutural, archaelogical, or more than Christian significance...

PhiPsiRuss · #4 08-12-2004, 02:40 PM

There's no date on the article. Reports of looting were widely reporting after the 2003 invasion. Months later, it turned out that while looting did occur, it was widely overstated. Some priceless items that were reported stolen were either being held in the homes of museum officials, or in vaults of museums.

Rudey · #5 08-12-2004, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PhiPsiRuss
There's no date on the article. Reports of looting were widely reporting after the 2003 invasion. Months later, it turned out that while looting did occur, it was widely overstated. Some priceless items that were reported stolen were either being held in the homes of museum officials, or in vaults of museums.

Exactly.

-Rudey

RACooper · #6 08-13-2004, 04:14 PM

Fine here is a transcript and report concerning the looting, and investigation into the looting, of the Baghdad Museum – given by the Marine Colonel in charge of the investigation.

http://www.defenselink.mil/transcrip...0910-0660.html

Now as for the looting of Iraqi archaeological sites, which is far worse than the theft of artifacts from the Baghdad Museum, a number of articles or reports have been done… here are two:
CNN
http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/science...q.archaeology/
National Geographic
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...aqlooting.html

Unfortunately the media have lost interest in Iraq, other than the ongoing effort to eliminate the insurgants... of course without an adequate expectation of security it would be difficult to convince journalists to review the state of the Iraqi archaeological sites.

My major complaint is with the looters of the many archeological sites, and thereby the destruction of the historical context of any artifacts damaged or removed. This situation has only been compounded by the lack of knowledge about the issue amongst the commanders and soldiers… although some progress has been made in that regard with tours given to the troops of historical sites. This of course marks a nice change from the callous ignorance of Rumsfled and his comments on looting:

“The images you are seeing on television you are seeing over and over, and it’s the same picture of some person walking out of some building with a vase, and you see it 20 times, and you think, ‘My goodness, were there that many vases? Is it possible that there were that many vases in the whole country?’”

Ah the whole package... Ignorance and Arrogance.

James · #7 08-13-2004, 09:42 PM

Well, I believe that its ilegal for American soldiers to loot in a war zone, and that at one time they could be shot for it. In today's PC America I think they can still be Court Martialed.

AlphasigOsu help us out with this. And I don't know what the Canadian military policy is . . .

Now, I would tend to be more lenient with our boys, but since its not American Soldiers looting, I have no problem with shooting the looters.

If we find them lets execute them. If we find the stuff thats left the country, lets prosecute. After all Its our Iraq right now. We bought and paid for it despite whatever puppet government we have set up to suck our dicks while we do what we need to do.

RACooper · #8 08-14-2004, 12:45 AM

I never said that US troops were doing any looting... don't know where you got idea from... but yes looting is very, very, illegal in military law.

I know that the Canadian military still uses the British system when it comes to looting, how did the Colonel put it in training... ah yes "the looters warning shot is when the guy next to him drops dead"; in a 'martial law' situation looters are to be shot, usually after physical control of the area is established and a verbal/audio waring is given to the looters... such as anyone found looting after such-and-such time will be shot.

Anyways back to the subject of the thread... strategically speaking, in the campaign for hearts and minds, the protection of archaeological sites would have been a sound tactic... I know the UK troops made a serious effort to protect the sites in their area (partly because some sites are historical British sites too)... basically the theory is: if the local population can see that you are concerned for their past and culture, it goes a long way to win over people.. and it cuts down on crime, by eliminating or curtailing an illegal economy.

James · #9 08-14-2004, 11:10 AM

I didn't write that you claimed that US soldiers were looting. I stated that because US soldiers weren't looting I was pretty comfy with shooting looters.

Quote:

Originally posted by RACooper
I never said that US troops were doing any looting... don't know where you got idea from... but yes looting is very, very, illegal in military law.

PhiPsiRuss · #10 08-14-2004, 07:45 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if looting occurred in Iraq, by the Baathists, before the invasion.

There is no scandal here. Just whining by people who think that 100,000 french maids should have been parachuted in, with dusters in hand, to clean up any unpleasantries that might occur. This was war. Looting is wrong, but there worse side effects to war. Get over it.

RACooper · #11 08-14-2004, 09:39 PM

Okay...
I'll try this again...

My major issue is not with the looting that happened during the conflict... again NOT DURING THE CONFLICT... it has been the systematic looting of the sites after the end of combat that is most troubling... yes artifacts were looted during combat... deplorable but expected... however after combat operations ceased, the real looting took place out in the countryside, were bands of looters (up to 300 men) would decend on archaelogical sites and tear away wall art, and carting away anything the dug up. Iraq is home to more major archaelogical sites than almost any other country in the world... the only competition is Egypt... the region is called the "Craddle of Civilization", and represents the heritage of both the East and West. It is impossible to understate the archealogical significance of the region... never mind paelo-anthropology, which has yet to do a detailed survey of the country.