Working for a big law firm

I was wondering what is was like to work in a big law firm? What type of hours am I looking at? The benefits? The salary? I want to see what my options are.

[AlphaGam1019]

check out www.nalpdirectory.com

biglaw firms pay around 125k starting (in the bigger cities).

hours vary firm to firm. some are sweatshops that make you work from 8-9 on weekdays and a few Saturdays too. well, you should check out each firm's yearly min. billing requirements and do the calculations. NY Biglaw tends to be brutal.

To get into them, you better be at a top law school or top % of an not so top law school.

[HelloKitty22]

Generally speaking big law firms pay the largest salaries (125K to 135K for 1st year associates), New York usually leads the way in this area and most major cities follow. They provide excellent benefit packages and usually a number of perks (like tickets to events or a discounted gym membership). However, be expected to WORK for this money. Nobody pays that much who isnt going to expect at least 2000 billable hours a year (you will be able to bill a max of about 80% of your working day, assuming you work very efficiently, which in the beginning you won't). Most firms are expecting 2200 to 2400 billable hours a year.
Big firms are not all the same and some have more or less of a sweatshop mentality. However, you should be clear on why you want to work for a large law firm. Many people do it for a few years to pay off loans or because they want the experience of working on certain types of cases only large firms handle. If you are looking at this as a long term gig and you are seriously concerned about quality of life issues, you may want to revaluate.

yea I am just trying to keep my options open. I am interested in 3 different types of law: Entertainment, Family, and International. NYC and LA are the best for entertainment and most entertainment law jobs are at large firms. International is best in NYC or overseas. Family law jobs can be found anywhere where families reside. I am just researching my options. I don't want a family so that's not an issue. Thanks ya'll!

[G8Ralphaxi]

The "How much your life will suck" math goes like this...

If required to have 1800 billable hours/year (the minimum I've seen in Florida), that breaks down:

Working 5 days/week
50 weeks/year (assume 2 weeks vacation or non-productive days)
7.2 hours/day

To bill 7.2 hours/day, you have to be at the office at least 8-9 hours. Lunch and coffee breaks don't count, you will invariably get nonbillable projects, and all the time you spend filling out the darn timesheet to get credit for it all doesn't count either.

Now, that's 1800 hours, generally viewed as tolerable - you will still have a life. Everytime you add to that, your quality of life takes a hit.

1900 hours = 7.6 hours/day
2000 hours = 8 hours/day
2100 hours = 8.4 hours/day
2200 hours = 8.8 hours/day
2300 hours = 9.2 hours/day
2400 hours = 9.6 hours/day

You can see that the higher billable requirements are pretty much impossible to do without working weekends.

Another dirty little trick to watch for - make sure you know HOW your hours are counted.

For example, if you work 10 hours on a project, but the partner in charge of the case needs to cut the client's bill, and writes off 3 of your hours, do you get credit for 10 hours, or only the 7 that were billed to the client? And what if the client doesn't pay their bill? Do you still get credit for the hours you worked, or only the portion for which they paid the bill? Some of the "BigLaw" firms pull tricks like this - I knew several 1st year associates at a big firm here in FL who had thought they were fine and then suddenly had maybe 100+ hours to make up. Not fun.

I tried the BigLaw thing - I clerked for one of the biggest law firms in the country my 1st summer. Not for me. I'm going with the midsize firm I clerked at last summer. The higher paycheck doesn't outweigh the other benefits.

A comparison:

Big Firm
salary - $80K
bonus - can't get your first year
bar exam expenses - firm pays for bar registration, and review class tuition
insurance - firm pays 100% of health ins, etc.
hours - 1850 minimum required + 150 "qualified" nonbillable (firm administration, assisting w/recruitment, pro bono, etc.), STRICT requirement, better make minimum or in trouble! realistic expectation is more like 1950 - 2000 hours or more if you want to advance, PLUS the qualified nonbillable.

Midsize Firm
salary - $65K
bonus - varies, but eligible first year
other - signing bonus of $5K, $5K to use for CLE (continuing legal education - $5K means I can fly around country to take classes in fun places like NYC instead of being stuck in town), $5K client development budget
insurance - firm pays 100% of health ins, etc.
hours - 1800 total, not strict. If you do a good job and do your work on time, still fine for advancement, still eligible for bonus.

For me, the difference in salary is a fair trade off for the better lifestyle. When you add in the immediate eligibility for the bonus, and the extras ($5K signing bonus, $5K CLE, $5K client development), the difference looks even smaller. Plus the people at my firm are so much more laid back than at any BigLaw firm i've ever seen. They have repeatedly turned down buyout offers from bigger firms. As the president of our firm said to my mother and me: "We could all work harder and make more money, but I don't think it would make us any happier. I like that we aren't the biggest, most cutthroat, revenue-generating law firm in town. We are very good at what we do and that's all that counts."

[AlphaGam1019]

Originally posted by G8Ralphaxi
Big Firm
salary - $80K
bonus - can't get your first year
bar exam expenses - firm pays for bar registration, and review class tuition
insurance - firm pays 100% of health ins, etc.
hours - 1850 minimum required + 150 "qualified" nonbillable (firm administration, assisting w/recruitment, pro bono, etc.), STRICT requirement, better make minimum or in trouble! realistic expectation is more like 1950 - 2000 hours or more if you want to advance, PLUS the qualified nonbillable.

which big firm are we talking about here? I'm thinking you're talking specifically about your experience because generally I've never seen biglaw pay less than 100k in major markets.

Also, most biglaw associates can get bonuses their first year.

One example:

Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom has announced a 2004 associate bonus ranging from $2,500 for first-year associates to $20,000 for senior associates, according to a source inside the firm.

lol, here's a link that has alot of bonus info.

Thanks, ya'll! This was very helpful! Interesting stuff!

[G8Ralphaxi]

I should clarify - most starting salaries are significantly lower here in FL, because the cost of living is so much lower. For example, the same biglaw firm where I worked paid $80K at the FL offices, but $100K at the other offices around the country. In general, you're not going to get $100K unless you go to a big metropolis like NYC, Chicago, Boston, or some California cities.

And the no-first-year bonus issue I think was pretty specific to this firm - related to what they considered the "start" of their year. So while it may appear on paper that 1st years get bonuses, you must work a full year to qualify, so when the bonus date rolled around, you'd be a month short, so NO BONUS FOR YOU! Yet another dirty little trick, and another reason I happily traded in the so-called presige name of the biglaw firm for the one I picked.

[G8Ralphaxi]

Originally posted by AlphaGam1019
which big firm are we talking about here?

I don't want to name names because there are a finite number of these BigLaw firms in FL and naming the specific one would make it VERY easy for someone to track down who I am. But I did my research and all the BigLaw firms in FL have similar salary/hours structures. They all pay between $75 - $90K and expect 1900-2000 hours or more.

[Peaches-n-Cream]

I really should have gone to law school.

[rho4life]

check out greedyassociates.com

[Wine&SilverBlue]

umm.. supposedly starting salary for a first year assoc at ABCDEF, a big law firm in NYC is $165k... (mid $200s after a few years)

and the average salary for a partner is $2 mil

although they expect you to work ridiculous hours...

[USFSDTAlum]

The attorney's at my firm call it face time, when you are there 6 am - 9 pm. You get no more done then working a normal working day, but the partners see you there...
When it comes to Billable hours, at least at my firm, we have many activities that are a set amount of time, so I get to bill .1 of an hour for doing an activity that takes me 1 minute instead of the 6 that that .1 represents. Many days I can bill over my time requirement. This is especially appreciable on activities that represent much more time that you actually spent on them, simply because you are at a point where you are on top of your game.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Wine&SilverBlue
umm.. supposedly starting salary for a first year assoc at ABCDEF, a big law firm in NYC is $165k... (mid $200s after a few years)

and the average salary for a partner is $2 mil

although they expect you to work ridiculous hours...

Who starts at 165?? The only firm I know that pays that much was Cravath and I don't think it was even that high.

Funk it. You should all go into banking. As an associate out of business school you will make more and won't be sitting there looking at pieces of paper and worrying about what you bill out.

-Rudey

[Peaches-n-Cream]

Originally posted by Wine&SilverBlue
umm.. supposedly starting salary for a first year assoc at ABCDEF, a big law firm in NYC is $165k... (mid $200s after a few years)

and the average salary for a partner is $2 mil

although they expect you to work ridiculous hours...

I am not sure about those salaries. My friend, who works at one of the five biggest law firms in NYC, started at about $125,000. The new associates work about 60 to 70 hours a week at his firm.

Partners can do very well depending on the money that they and the firm bring in. If the firm is successful, the partners are rewarded. I have heard of six figure bonuses for a corporate lawyer who worked on a big merger.