Do you think Hollywood is "less refined" today?

[Taualumna]

In the past, Hollywood had their bad boys/girls, their good boy/girl-next-door, and their "refined" types. However, today, the "lady" (and even the "gentleman") seems to be missing, or at least not as present as it used to be (I can think of one or two actresses that fit the "lady" archetype as well as a few actors who fit the "gentleman"...it seems to me, though, that most aren't American (and certainly not Canadian...all we produce are comics ), but British). What do you think? Where did it go wrong? Or is it "wrong"?

[winneythepooh7]

I can't explain it but I know exactly what you are talking about. It seems like most actors and actresses are a dime a dozen these days.

[cuaphi]

I don't know. As movies have grown and developed over the years some of the mystique is gone. I think the entire ideas of movies used to be so glamourous when they were first invented, then first had speaking then first had color. People also seemed to know less about movie stars since I don't think they were stalked as relentlessly by photographers. For example, Rock Hudson was a major sex symbol of his day but in reality he was gay and no one knew until years later.

Now, you can watch a movie any old time at home on TV or even right on your computer and it's become so much more commonplace to us now. That plus all the media exposure makes us think of celebrities as more normal people and less silver screen icons.

In terms of old fashioned glamourous movie stars we still have George Clooney, Gywneth Paltrow, Charlize Theron, those are just the impossible beautifull people I can think of off hand. In short, it's not the actors it's the whole industry.

[33girl]

The studios don't have the control over the stars that they used to. I'm sure that some of the old actors & actresses were just as "normal" as modern-day ones. The difference is they don't have MGM or whoever telling them what movies to make, what to wear in public, etc.

[Kevin]

Hollywood only exists to sell what Americans will buy. I think in general, it could be said that people don't have those "old fashioned" values anymore. I think the American culture in general is less "refined" than in the past. Hollywood just reflects that.

[Peaches-n-Cream]

I think that everything is less refined today.

I was going to mention the same people as cuaphi and add Julia Roberts. Before they divorced, I though Alec Baldwin and Kim Basinger were really glamorous and elegant, but I'm not sure about refined. I think that the last refined Hollywood stars are Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward.

[tinydancer]

I agree with ktsnake. I am certainly glad to have AMC and TCM so I can see so many of the old movies. I really enjoy them. One of the problems, I think, is that nowadays there are a lot of actors who can't act in a lot of movies. I guess they were in the right place at the right time.

[James]

I am not sure about "refined" what do you guys mean by that?

What i have noticed is maybe a . . lack of charisma in many of today's actors that is disconcerting.

There was something about watching a Cary Grant on the screen or a Maureen O'harra that suggested a lot of prescence.

Most of the actors today, are likeable, but don't have that intensity that I have seen in some of the older movies.

There are exceptions: Dustin Hoffman, Gene Hackman, and Jack Nicholas come to mind.

Also, there is a tendency for hollywood to use younger and younger people in very dramatic roles, and sometimes that youth seems to betray them a bit. You just aren't as good at being yourself at 22 as you are at 35 and it can really show on the screen.

[winneythepooh7]

who are your fave "old" actors? I love Audrey in Breakfast at Tiffany's. That movie is a classic.

[Munchkin03]

It's considerably easier to put out a movie now. Movies didn't come out as often 50 years ago. There was a certain mystique to being an actor that isn't around today.

[tinydancer]

Originally posted by winneythepooh7
who are your fave "old" actors? I love Audrey in Breakfast at Tiffany's. That movie is a classic.

I like most anything with Jimmy Stewart. William Powell was great. Ray Milland was good in light comedies. Rosalind Russell is wonderful. I like old mysteries and film noir as well as screwball comedies.

[honeychile]

Originally posted by Peaches-n-Cream
I think that everything is less refined today.

... I think that the last refined Hollywood stars are Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward.

I agree entirely. Although, does Hollywood reflect us, or do we reflect Hollywood?

[decadence]

Movies didn't come out as often 50 years ago.

True that. They were churned out by studios MORE often.
In the time of Casablanca completing a film weekly wasn't unusual.

[decadence]

It is a reflection I feel of advancement of society and even technology.

There was a time when Westerns were very popular. Perhaps because the American perception of 'hero' has changed, this is no longer as true. The idea of cowboys against [the other race of] indians is now more anathaemic to contemporary societal values.

Time was when a lady could not bare herself onscreen, only her soul. These days it is practically wall to wall nipples. Once though, suggestion was all that people could get away with. Take the film Double Indemnity for example (1940s film noir with Barbara Stanwyck at the femme fatale). There was plenty of suggestion, but she was in a long flowing dress with an anklet to hint at a more declassé side. These days, if they wanted a star to convey sex appeal they'd just include plenty of flesh. With an obligatory sex scene or two on the side. When more was covered up, there had to be more suggestion and a more "ladylike" appearance. The Hayes Code (restriction on movies in that era) would never have allowed films to be passed which would "corrupt" society.

Also, technology has moved things on. The 1920s (?) film Jazz Singer was one of the first 'talkies'. Before then films were silent. A lot of actresses and actors couldn't find work when that change happened; as their voices didn't fit roles.
Similarly in earlier times a big scar across the face meant you'd play a bad guy only. With makeup, special effects etc that net has widened.

Take the films of director Douglas Sirk, e.g. Written on the Wind or all that Heaven Allows (1950s). They would be films of small town life perhaps where the 'lady' "knew her place" and being on the straight and narrow was good. As a director in the days of the studio system he could only use subtlety to convey it was a fallacy, that under a veneer good and bad weren't quite so separate. Contemporary director David Lynch much more openly portrays the idea of the respectable small town, the lady and the gentleman being a fallacy; in films like Blue Velvet. Perhaps, only the tweed worn over the bad boys/girls has been removed.

Perhaps the gentleman, too is a dying breed and films reflect that. The more warped views of feminism (viz. less equality more supremacy) have pushed aside the image of the well spoken gent opening doors, or walking on the outside of the road so the lady does not get splashed by a horseless carriage. I'm not saying manners have gone but the image of an upper class, refined person has faded. Perhaps more actors like this are seen from Britain as they might be more believable in this image; it's probably only an image for them. I've seen men in bowler hats maybe once or twice in my life. : - )

There are onscreen personas. Gone are the days when we couldn't tell the difference and would expect onscreen doctors to diagnose us! However, stars are expected to carefully cultivate an offscreen image too. The Olsen sisters are expected to be clean to occupy their niche and sit well with parents and kids. Other stars are expected to appeal to their market with the presumption sex sells. Sometimes publicists may even engineer 'relationships' for them to push their image of the vivacious young star.
In earlier cinematic days of the studio system it was about illusion. Stars were contracted to a studio for a period and could only make films for them. The studio could impose huge restrictions on stars, they were in a position of power. The studios could also suppress harmful media stories back then. Firstly because the public didn't want to hear it (there was a story or two about some top stars back in the day that wasn't accepted), and secondly as they could refuse access to all their stars for interviews etc or prescreenings if that media outlet harmed one star.

[swissmiss04]

It's just a reflection of society, as Ktsnake said. You don't see people wearing a hat and gloves to the grocery store and people don't dress up when they travel. It's perfectly ok to broadcast to the world how many men/women you've slept with, and even film it, if you really want to. A lot of this has to do w/ the declining control of the studios over their actors, but it's also a microcosm of society. There was drug use, alcoholism and sexual promiscuity then, but it definitely was not talked about or done in the public eye. Things like divorce and illegitimate children are no longer stigmatized. I wouldn't blame Hollywood for that.