Iraqi Prisoner Hearings

2blue · #1 05-07-2004, 06:39 PM

At the beginnng, I could only listen on the radio. I was not impressed the way that Rumsfeld and others avoided the questions many times. I definitely was not impressed. Maybe later during the day, they improved.

Later I was able to watch it live. At the end when the former Navy officer was speaking, the cameras panned to Rumsfeld. I couldn't tell if he was smiling or smirking.

I can't believe that Bush White House team did not know of this earlier. I think they just hoped it would go away.

justamom · #2 05-07-2004, 07:26 PM

I listened on and off all day. I can't even think of a word that would describe it. The thing that keeps coming atcha is the FACT that more...WORSE video clips and photos exist!!!

Rumsy-thought he held up pretty good. The fact is, there ARE things he can't comment on. Timeline was NOT an effective tool for them. He kind of lost it near the end and gave everyone the "what for".

The senator or congressman ??? from Florida came right out and asked Rumsfeld to resign. I wouldn't have minded it, but he invoked the name of God and spewed all this crap like "My prayers are with you." "With all due respect...." God this-prayers that...Made me want to vomit. THAT was partisan BS.

Others like the HONORABLE Joe Leiberman, after stating how horrified he was and what a tragedy for American servicemen and our nation's image, pointed out that there were NO apologies after 9-11 or the bombing or the hanging burnt remains of the 4 Americans-THAT put it in perspective. Of course you had the Teddy K's and the groomed Dems-ALL even the Rep. wanted it on record how distasteful the whole affair was.

Bottom line? He WON'T resign-more to come-and to quote the late great Betty Davis-
"Hold on to your seats, it's going to be a bumpy ride."

twostep · #3 05-07-2004, 08:33 PM

RACooper · #4 05-07-2004, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by justamom
Others like the HONORABLE Joe Leiberman, after stating how horrified he was and what a tragedy for American servicemen and our nation's image, pointed out that there were NO apologies after 9-11 or the bombing or the hanging burnt remains of the 4 Americans-THAT put it in perspective.

Did you catch the whole comment Leiberman made and the context... yes he pointed out that there where no apologies for the actions of the terrorists and the Iraqi insurgents... but he then went on to say that America did owe an apology because they're better than people that commited these atrocities.

honeychile · #5 05-08-2004, 12:17 AM

What really got to me is hearing that most of these photos were taken with a digital camera & emailed home. So:

1) Do we still castigate the Patriot Act and screen everyone's email?

2) Or do we take the cameras/email technology off of these "soldiers"?

3) Where was the outrage from the people who received these photos?

I have a million other questions, but this travesty has me not even thinking straight!

moe.ron · #6 05-08-2004, 04:25 AM

I still want to know what the mercenaries aka "private contractors" were doing interogating the prisoners. It is one thing to privatised services and transportations, it is another to privatised interogations of prisoners.

justamom · #7 05-08-2004, 09:31 AM

RACooper , yes, I heard his whole statement. I just appreciated the fact that he mentioned the actions of the terrorists. The thing that got me about the hearings-It was a speech making situation-the real probing questions were few and far between. The committee members would show their indignation, going on and on...then ask a mere one or two questions.
Of course there were exceptions.

KillarneyRose · #8 05-08-2004, 09:55 AM

I completely understand the point the posters who posted the cartoon and the comments about the terrorists and insurgents and on an emotional level I agree.

But the actions of those prison guards makes me sick. I support this war because I truly believe the US has right on its side. But this abuse of prisoners is NOT right.

In the end, those photos will cost more American lives. Iraqis will see them and the middle eastern perception of Americans as the devil will be cemented in the minds of those who were on the rail about whether to trust us or not. So there will be more roadside bombs and sniper attacks on our troops.

So, in some instances, the rocket scients who took those photos will be responsible for the deaths of their fellow soldiers.

I hope they are punished severely.

justamom · #9 05-08-2004, 10:38 AM

KR-In the end, those photos will cost more American lives. Iraqis will see them and the middle eastern perception of Americans as the devil will be cemented in the minds of those who were on the rail about whether to trust us or not. So there will be more roadside bombs and sniper attacks on our troops.

You are sooooooo right! This really does scare me for our young men and women. As despicable as the torture was, this probable result is equally as horrid.

No amount of mea culpas will make this incident any less than what it was-hideous. They are trying to say the "regular" Iraqis will be able to put this incident aside and hold their faith that Americans aren't like that.
I find THAT hard to swallow.

ZTAMich · #10 05-08-2004, 10:41 AM

slight hijack I apologize in advance...

another teacher at work was looking at a news site yesterday morning and looked at the pictures in question. She said "Wow that's so like fraternities and stupid!" I just couldn't believe it!! There was no use trying to argue with her over it since this is the same teacher who is upset I'm in a program where I'm getting my masters at a lower price than she is...she already has it out for me and probably was saying it to piss me off on purpose.

[/end hijack]

mmcat · #11 05-10-2004, 07:37 AM

el paso is heavily into the military and i was listening to a sergeant major talking about the pictures and questioning the sanity of anyone who would shoot pictures of such actions. he said that bad things happen during war; some things that civilians wouldn't understand. war is not a time to try to explain it, he said.

moe.ron · #12 05-10-2004, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mmcat
el paso is heavily into the military and i was listening to a sergeant major talking about the pictures and questioning the sanity of anyone who would shoot pictures of such actions. he said that bad things happen during war; some things that civilians wouldn't understand. war is not a time to try to explain it, he said.

I'm sorry, but that is no reason to abuse, rape, and murder the prisonerss. As for "war is not a time to try to explain it," I'm sure many bad regimes used the same reason. Like Hussein saying that by him gassing the Iranian during the Iran-Iraq war is soemthing civilians wouldn't understand.

Here is the bottom line, the accused have been accused of violating the law according to military justice. the military justice knows no time when it is not relevant.

Kevin · #13 05-10-2004, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ZTAMich
slight hijack I apologize in advance...

another teacher at work was looking at a news site yesterday morning and looked at the pictures in question. She said "Wow that's so like fraternities and stupid!" I just couldn't believe it!! There was no use trying to argue with her over it since this is the same teacher who is upset I'm in a program where I'm getting my masters at a lower price than she is...she already has it out for me and probably was saying it to piss me off on purpose.

[/end hijack]

reply to hijack

I guess schools are like that. My mother has been a teacher for years and ever since I can remember, there have been factions stabbing eachother in the back. Especially in the foriegn language department -- they all want to teach French. Just wanted to letcha know that drama seems to be an epidemic among members of that profession.

/end reply to hijack

moe.ron · #14 05-10-2004, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ktsnake
reply to hijack

I guess schools are like that. My mother has been a teacher for years and ever since I can remember, there have been factions stabbing eachother in the back. Especially in the foriegn language department -- they all want to teach French. Just wanted to letcha know that drama seems to be an epidemic among members of that profession.

/end reply to hijack

reply to the reply to hijack

herd the back stabbing at the university level, especially high profile departments, are worst.

/end reply to the reply to hijack

DeltAlum · #15 05-10-2004, 10:30 AM

While there is NO excuse for any US soldier to be involved in this kind of treatment, here is a "smoking gun" pointing directly at top Army brass in Iraq -- and it is being held by a high ranking Army officer who should know.

"Military police in charge of prisons in Iraq saw their mission shift from guarding prisoners to supporting intelligence-gathering to help counter Iraqi attacks on the allied coalition last fall, The New Yorker magazine reported Sunday.

"Detention operations must act as an enabler for interrogation ... to provide a safe, secure and humane environment that supports the expeditious collection of intelligence," Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller, head of a military prison task force, wrote in a November memo, quoted by the magazine in its May 17 issue, out Sunday.

The magazine says that on Nov. 19, Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, the top operational commander in Iraq, issued an order taking tactical control of Abu Ghraib prison away from the MPs and turning it over to the 205th Military Intelligence Brigade.

That policy went into effect over the objections of Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba, another military prison expert, who said the change was "not doctrinally sound due to the different missions and agendas assigned to each of these respective specialties," the story says.

In February, Taguba submitted a scathing report on widespread and shocking abuses in the prisons that some officials believe stemmed in part from that change of policy. The report said certain military-intelligence officers and civilian contractors were directly or indirectly responsible for the mistreatment."

Conflicting beliefs from two top Army generals certainly can't help the situation.