State of the Black Church

[Blackwatch]

Did anyone see thie Tavis Smiley forum On the state of the black church on C-Span on Saturday? I thought it was tremendous and we need more discussions like that on local levels. Dr. James Cone is the man, and his implore that we need not to denigrate the mind in order to experience God was a sorely needed message for us in the 21st century. What do you guys think!!!!!



Blackwatch!!!!!!
http://www.tavistalks.com/CONTENT/Ta...nts/index.html

[AKA2D '91]

My soror told me about it yesterday. She said that our local minister Bishop Paul Morten was on there. She said he didn't have too much to say, probably because the panelists were "stepping on his toes." When he did have something to say, he didn't answer the question.

LMAO

From what she said, he should have been saying OUCH (Bentley comment, etc.) You should see the house he's building across the street from a soror. Whenever I have access to the neighborhood during the day, I'm going to take a picture of this Commericial Dwelling. This is the ONLY way you can describe it because it is HUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEE!

[RedefinedDiva]

I saw it and it was great. Yes, Bishop Morten was on there and he said nothing. I don't get down with him or Darryl Brister. It's just one scandal after another.

2D, what neighborhood is it?

[AKA2D '91]

Originally posted by RedefinedDiva
I saw it and it was great. Yes, Bishop Morten was on there and he said nothing. I don't get down with him or Darryl Brister. It's just one scandal after another.

2D, what neighborhood is it?

Have you heard the latest with DB? I was going to visit BL, but decided not to. Heck, DB came from BM. What would you expect?

Neighborhood: Eastover

[Blackwatch]

One of the things that signaled to me that it was gonna be excellent was the commentary on educated pastors. Tavis Smiley asked how come Dr. King seemed to understand the connection between theology and politics and how important it was for the church to be the prophetic voice and "speak truth to power" against the powers that be-the government. Tavis then went on to note how many pastors today don't really become that politically active and he wanted to get some reasons as to why. Jeremiah Wright hit the nail on the head when he stated "90% of our black pastors today aren't seminary trained. Dr. King was seminary trained". This I think is fascinating to note because as we think about many of the issues that characterize our condition as black people here in America, many of the topics they were discussing, you could see that they were very complex issues that required some knowledge and grasp of politics, sociology, economics, psychology, etc. Many of our pastors are just not aware of these things and this greatly affects how they interpret the bible and what they teach. One word that they kept throwing out that I think the black church needs to examine more is hermeneutics- the science of biblical interpretation. This is where the black church renders itself irrelevant to many black people in the 21st century. You have to study hermeneutics in order to really understand the truth of the gospel. Dr. James Cone put it best when he talked about how we as a people would not let an untrained doctor perform surgery on us or let an untrained lawyer represent us in court, but we will, as Jeremiah Wright stated, let anyone who turns up their collar and says "thus saith the Lord" preach, teach , and lead us in our spiritual development. I think this is why Paul Morton was silent most of the day, because they set the foundation for discussion that was going to make him look foolish if he continued to open his mouth. And the few times he did say something, it just revealed his ignorance. What do you guys think?

Blackwatch!!!!!!

[Kisha]

Originally posted by Blackwatch
...Many of our pastors are just not aware of these things and this greatly affects how they interpret the bible and what they teach.
Blackwatch!!!!!!

I couldn't agree with you more. We have been hearing about Daniel in the lion's den for 30+yrs. There is so much more in the Bible. As cliché as this may sound, knowledge is key.

Black Watch you bring up excellent points. I truly enjoyed the forum. However, we talk about “our” problems all the day long, I would like to see a forum where our leaders, be it pastors, politicians, etc., join together to devise a strategic national plan to solve them?

[AKA2D '91]

I'm waiting for the repeat. I can't believe I missed it. Actually, I can because I wasn't at home. I normally am able to catch Tavis and his shows that are on C-SPAN.

Aren't tapes available? My soror said she was going to purchase it so we could have a discussion.

[NewBee]

Originally posted by AKA2D '91
I'm waiting for the repeat. I can't believe I missed it. Actually, I can because I wasn't at home. I normally am able to catch Tavis and his shows that are on C-SPAN.

Aren't tapes available? My soror said she was going to purchase it so we could have a discussion.

Does anyone know when the repeat airs???

I would also like to see it.

[ClassyLady]

Originally posted by Blackwatch
Dr. James Cone put it best when he talked about how we as a people would not let an untrained doctor perform surgery on us or let an untrained lawyer represent us in court, but we will, as Jeremiah Wright stated, let anyone who turns up their collar and says "thus saith the Lord" preach, teach , and lead us in our spiritual development.

Amen!

In a college town, like Tallahassee, there are a lot of "upstart" churches that seek out college students. I have had the opportunity to attend one of the more popular ones and I can say that there was a lot of hooping, hollering, shouting, and singing, but not much else. All icing and no cake. I have always attended churches led by seminary-trained pastors. And, I am used to being "fed" by the word. This experience was a total shock for me. We spent three hours in this church and I didn't walk away with anything. I like to leave church feeling like I am a better person than when I walked in. I like to learn more about the Lord and feel that I am closer to him.

[Shelacious]

I managed to catch a piece of it, and it was great. I can't remember all the participants, but I certainly respect folks like Bishop Jones, Professor Grant and others who bring a level of critical thinking on subjects of politics, religion and social responsibility. I hope that parishioners are getting tired of being "preached" at and desire religious leaders who are educated on scripture and ensure that their church members are as well. One of the first things I looked for when I joined a church home was whether the Pastor was trained in seminary, whether he/she was passionate about social action and whether he/she employed a "teaching" model rather than a "preachin" model within the Church infrastructure. I was also looking for a Church that didn’t always “have” to follow the traditions of the black church, but was willing to think outside the box.

On www.cspan.org, you can watch the entire event (morning and afternoon session) via Real Video (best if you have broadband). It looks like Dr. West was a participant in the afternoon session (which I didn’t see at all).

You can buy both sessions via CSPAN, I think:
Forum
Role of the Church in Black America, Morning
Smiley Group
Detroit, Michigan (United States)
ID: 175009 - 02/08/2003 - 4:11 - $39.95

Forum
Role of the Church in Black America, Afternoon
Smiley Group
Detroit, Michigan (United States)
ID: 175009 - 2 - 02/08/2003 - 3:04 - $39.95

[RedefinedDiva]

Unless you are ballin' like that to pay $39.95 EACH for a video (I know that I'm not), keep an eye out on Tavis' website. He said that he would be getting the re-air dates from C-SPAN soon. You can also check the C-SPAN website. I see that it re-aired Saturday night, but I forgot to set my VCR. If I get the dates before everyone, I'll post them.

[RedefinedDiva]

Originally posted by AKA2D '91
Have you heard the latest with DB? I was going to visit BL, but decided not to. Heck, DB came from BM. What would you expect?

Neighborhood: Eastover

Guuuuuurl, that is some MESS!! All that nonsense is a trip. DB also beats his wife. I got the inside scoop on that. BM is a trip also. I can't get with it. I have never set foot in BL or GSS. The Devil is working hard in there.

[Blackwatch]

One of the subjects that came up was the issue of gender justice in the black church. It was interesting to note how some estimates had 70% of black church goers being women, while over 95% of the pastors were men. A few years back , I read a book by Jawannza Kunjufu entitled Adam Where Are You? Why Black Men Don't Go to Church in it , Dr. Kunjufu discusses some reasons why black men do not go to church. It is even more fascinating to note that all of the responses to this topic have been from sisters, even though this is the Alpha Phi Alpha forum. So I'm gonna pose a question to the brothers as well as any men who may be reading this thread, Why do you think black men don't go to Church? Is it the preaching? Is it the relative lack of power we seem to percieve as compared to the pastor? Is the church itself not "powerful" enough in its action (or inaction) and message? Is the theology screwed up? Give some reasons.

To the ladies, why is the church so much more appealing to black women than to black men? What about the issue of women preaching and pastoring? Is the Bible written from a patriarchal context, as Dr. Michael Eric Dyson suggests? If so, then why aren't more men in church? Let's talk about these things

Blackwatch!!!!!!

[DoggyStyle82]

Number one, unlike Islam, with the exception of the Preacher, the Black Church does not cater to the Black Male ego. As it is presently constituted, it fulfills what a woman is missing in a way that she can feel.

[OneOneTwo]

Alright...

As usual, I agree with Doggystyle on this one, and to take it a step further, the commercialization of the church is probably one of the main reasons men don't go.

I have noticed that in some Black churches in particular that there is a lot of pettiness, backbitting, and UNgodly things that go on in the church already and we SEE this on a regular. Like the episode on 'Soul Food' that came on Tuesday on BET (thats the only time I watch it now, but that is another thread) where the preacher was cussing and just bad mouthing folks IN THE CHURCH. Now why would I, or any other MAN want to attend a place of worship where I am not wanted. And how many times have we seen two or more WOMEN (supposedly they are women, I don't know) greet another sista or brotha only to talk about them when they think they are two steps out of earshot of them. Bullshit I tell you, bullshit.

Back to the commercialization of the church... okay, how come most of the young male gospel singers look like they retired from being centerfolds in a Playgirl magazine (see the PORN thread)? In order to sell gospel records these days, it doesn't take skill alone; you have to have the looks (remember I'm talking about GOSPEL) and the stage pressence of a circus act. Most of the people who you hear on the radio don't even look like people I go to church with (not hating on them), but if we were really going to have gospel singers who truly are doing the Lords work, then why can't they look like you and I?

And another thing, these plays... most of the subjects appeal to women. I can't even get a religous, faithful, 'every Sunday I'm going to Church' brotha to say that they have been to one or want to attend one. Again, the commericalization of the church. And who does the church reach out to... women. Most of the time, I have noticed that there are alot of topics and discussions that pertain to women. Alot of the social groups that pertain to women. It would be nice if I could get the pastor to watch a basketball game or shoot some hoops with me now and then. Or can we go to a REAL PRISON and do some work?

To sum it all up, the BEST reason men don't go to church is the crucifiction and witchhunts that come with going to church or not going to church. Most of the people who go would rather talk junk about the people who don't go than invite them to attend their meetings. And if a brotha don't or can't afford a good suit at the moment, folks act they don't want him to come with him anyway. WTF.

As far as me is concerned, I have found that I like to go to the REAL EARLY SERVICE... the one that begins at 7:30 am. And if I don't make it to that service, then I just don't go. And the best part of the 7:30 service is that everything is on time and you don't have too much of the bull...