i'm always the last to know

Adelphean1851 · #1 04-01-2004, 01:30 AM

I was having a chat with my alum assocations VP of Comm. and we were talking about college membership vs. alum membership and I said something about the whole standing up for alumnae thing and she told me that we outlawed that because of hazing. I guess this is realtively new. I dunno but I personally feel like this is a little to much, I thought collegians stood as a mark of respect. I mean I suppose it's hard to respect the girl you partied with just last year, but I sure as heck would stand up for one of our elder pi's those women deserve our respect. I understand the hazing issue. But hazing and showing respect are two diffrent animals.

adpiucf · #2 04-01-2004, 01:41 AM

We were just chatting about this on the "Random" thread, too!

While we may not always agree with phasing out the old traditions, or when the sorority makes a decision, it is our job as members to respect that the ways have changed for a reason, and to find a new way that works "inside the box" to go about our business. It is part of the responsibility of being part of the group to follow the group dictates.

For example, I know an alum who HATES the word recruitment. She refuses to say it and when we changed the name of our Alumnae-Collegiate Spirit Week Event from "Rush Brunch" to "Legacy and Friends Tea," she threw a fit. This was after we agreed not to call it "Recruitment Brunch" just out of respect for her! It's small and silly, but it bothers her.

If we are to be first and finest, we must open to change. And if we don't agree with something, we as members have a right to speak up and petition our feelings. That is why Grand Council meets several times a year, and the reason for our bi-annual conventions-- to pass resolutions, report on happenings in the sorority and the NPC world, etc. I think sometimes we tend to point fingers and assign blame, when we could do so much more by taking ownership and working for the greater good by seeing the big picture. I can tell you, I have certainly been at fault in the sense of the former!!! Many times!!!

Get involved with ADPi! Your voice DOES count! You can effect great change within the sorority, and voice the things that are important to you.

You go, sisters!

texas*princess · #3 04-01-2004, 01:42 AM

I guess there are ways to show respect without having to stand up or whatnot. I always respect my elders, but I don't see anything wrong with respecting the sisters as they are collegiates and even if they are "newer" alums whom you partied with last year

Personally I think it is a little much to do away with that, but I can totally understand where EO is coming from on that one.

What's really weird is just this past Monday, one of our advisors had to "remind" us that we should stand for alums

So I guess I'm a little confused.

Adelphean1851 · #4 04-01-2004, 02:47 AM

I hadn't heard of this until tonight.

Adpiucf,
i'm not like enraged about it or anything it just amazes me what can be construed as hazing these days. I know EO just did this to keep us from getting sued. I guess i'm more frusrtated with society in general. It's too bad terms like hazing have such broad definitions the way things are going some one could cry "hazing" for anything. Though i've never for the life of me heard of alumnae hazing collegieans. I mean we're supposed to be the "older and wiser" members. I mean please someone give me an example.

honeychile · #5 04-01-2004, 03:47 PM

My understanding is that standing would only be considered hazing if only the Alphas had to do it; if the entire chapter was told to stand for their elders, that's a show of respect. Did anyone else hear it that way?

Btw, as a pledge, I had to stand for a sister "out of respect for the pin she wears". That would be hazing.

ASUADPi · #6 04-01-2004, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Adelphean1851
I hadn't heard of this until tonight.

Adpiucf,
i'm not like enraged about it or anything it just amazes me what can be construed as hazing these days. I know EO just did this to keep us from getting sued. I guess i'm more frusrtated with society in general. It's too bad terms like hazing have such broad definitions the way things are going some one could cry "hazing" for anything. Though i've never for the life of me heard of alumnae hazing collegieans. I mean we're supposed to be the "older and wiser" members. I mean please someone give me an example.

Alelphean1851,
I completely understand. It also amazes me what is construed as hazing. Not to start a whole hazing thing, but my personal opinion EO is way to busy trying to be PC that it seems to be that the collegians aren't really having fun anymore. Now this is my perspective from visiting with the DG girls. They are a small chapter so EO is always on their case and pretty much a lot of things are considered hazing and it boggles my mind. But I get ya.

As for standing. I think it is a matter of respect and I don't see how it can be possibly construed as hazing IF EVERYONE IS STANDING. How is that hazing? Please someone enlighten me.

WLFEO · #7 04-01-2004, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by honeychile
My understanding is that standing would only be considered hazing if only the Alphas had to do it; if the entire chapter was told to stand for their elders, that's a show of respect. Did anyone else hear it that way?

OK- I got this straight from a Grand Council member in February-- If members are required to stand, it is hazing. If they want to do it on their own free will, it is OK.

(But it still makes me uncomfortable when collegians stand for me- I feel like I should be the one standing for them b/c they are doing so much of the work and carrying the biggest portion of the financial obligation for the entire sisterhood...but then again I've always believed that leaders should be almost "servants" for lack of a better word- humble and willing to do the grunt work. Leaders who flaunt their position impress mainly themselves.)

BTW- Grand Council is the body of officers who enforce & interpret our bylaws (along with a million other things). EO is Executive Office- they are an office that helps carry out the day-to-day operations of the sorority. EO staff members work for the whole sorority- they don't govern us. However, there are women working at EO now who were formerly Grand Council members- they just have taken on a different role and are now employees. There's your brief TME lesson of the day.

skerbow · #8 04-01-2004, 04:40 PM

Thank you WFLEO...that was wonderfully put!

We should all take the attitudes of servitude, be it collegiate or alumna

ASUADPi · #9 04-01-2004, 06:01 PM

I guess I'm not being clear, when I say EO, I'm talking generally. I'm talking the 'head honchos', which I'm not. Does that make sense?
You can obviously tell that my TME wasn't very worthwhile.

(but then again it's also been six years since I was an Alpha and boy have things changed)

adpiucf · #10 04-01-2004, 06:31 PM

I think WLFEO was just clarifying. EO is the adminstrative, day-to-day fulfillment end, and Grand Council is the strategic/executive side of ADPi.

lonestaradpi · #11 04-01-2004, 08:36 PM

Yes, honey. That is the way hazing has always been explained to me. No name tags for Alphas because the entire chapter doesn't have to wear them. No Alpha shirts for the NM b/c it singled them out from the rest of the chapter. Are study hours still done? I never enjoyed them (and I was scholarship) but went to them.

I guess that men have been hazed all their lives because it is proper and right for them to stand when a woman enters or leaves a room, when they are introduced to a woman, when a woman gets up from a table.

I do not think that anyone should be forced to do anything at all, but etiquette should be taught and stressed. I'm tired of hearing the sorority girl jokes. The stereo types that are often times associated with sorority women. College is a time to prepare for the rest of your life, poor etiquette can be a career killer!!

I hope that I'm making sense here. I have very strong feelings about the word "hazing" and what it has come to mean. I understand Grand Council's position to maintain great relations with all. I'm just amazed at the stuff our members can't do, but I have a good friend who just pledged a local sorority and got the hsit hazed out of her. Her sorority has lasted 50 years and things have really not changed much. Stong feelings.

Sorry I'm all over the place on this. Hope you can follow this.

I messed up Honey's quote, see her earlier post.

FirstAndFinest · #12 04-01-2004, 10:13 PM

Study hours are allowed if they are required of the entire chapter membership, or for those failing to maintain grades.

Let me throw THIS out there no that we are talking about traditions and hazing. Let's say that a chapter wanted to do a scavenger hunt - all the members are Deltas - is THAT considered Hazing? Or, is it maybe not Hazing, but still Prohibited?

I'd especially love to hear from any advisors or IO's on this.

ASUADPi · #13 04-01-2004, 11:29 PM

I'm pretty sure now, from a conversation I had with Abbey, that all scavenger hunts are considered hazing. Now, this is completely my interpretation of the conversation. I could be wrong. How is beyond me. I went on a scavenger hunt when I was an Alpha with my fellow Alpha sisters and I was given the option not to participate, in fact two of the girls chose not too because they weren't feeling well. It wasn't held against them and it wasn't like we loved them any less. Just my opinion on the matter.

honeychile · #14 04-01-2004, 11:40 PM

I liked WLFEO & Sherra's responses.

Now, I do not always agree with IO's policies (surprise!) but there is a phrase I learned in childhood that has served me well: "An appearance of evil".

You may be involved with something completely innocent, and 99 times out of 100, what we want to do IS completely innocent. But there's always someone who is going to look at this "something" and say, "SEE!!! I told you that sororities are nasty!!"

Now, the easy thing to do would be to just slap these idiots up side the head, but since we can't do that and have an aura of respectability about us, we need to pick our battles.

I like scavenger hunts, old person that I am. Heck, the people in the senior citizen homes I visit love them! But, if you MUST be involved with one, you MUST do it outside of the Greek System - clearing the sorority (and any possible fraternity) of any legal problems.

I'm afraid that the standing out of respect is SO ingrained in me, I will do it until I'm embalmed & unable to do so, and it has nothing to do with sorority. I do think that, in the past 20-30 years, we've seen a lot of previously expected practices of respect or etiquette fall by the wayside. I also think that it's our job, as a sorority, to teach some of that to EVERYONE in the chapter, not just the Alphas. It's a pet project of mine that you're sure to hear more about in the future.

I hope I made sense.

adpiucf · #15 04-02-2004, 12:20 AM

Scavenger Hunts are off-limits, per NPC resolutions, for ALL members. All NPC sororities should observe this rule. Scavenger hunts carry the connotation that something bad could happen, based on what has happened in the past.

If you even think it might be considered hazing or be taken out of context, err on the side of caution!