Deferred Rush Under Discussion at UNC-Chapel Hill

[exlurker]

The Tar Heel reports that the Board of Trustees of the University of North Carolina is asking for input on the possibility of deferred recruitment.

Story is at:

http://www.dailytarheel.com/vnews/di.../4045e4a96bec6

Concerns mentioned include parental complaints about time-consuming -- and apparently unnecessary -- activites required of new members.

Deferred recruitment seems to be a hot topic whenever it comes up, with people tending to be very pro or very con, so I thought this might be of interest. As I recall, deferred recruitment is also being considered at Michigan - Ann Arbor.

The member of the Board of Trustees who is asking for input and discussion of deferred recruitment -- Russell Carter -- does not appear to be a totally-out-of-left-field guy. Biographical info on the Internet indicates that he, his father, and his son are all Chapel Hill alums, with strong ties to the university (for example, they gave a Pulitzer Prize that his family's newspaper won back in 1952 to UNC to be put on display in the journalism school).

If prominent or fairly prominent trustees are hearing complaints from parents, and if, as an IFC rep mentions in the article, some of the GLOs at Chapel Hill have either minor or major problems ... maybe it is time for thoughtful discussion of possible changes.

[33girl]

Do the majority of students live that close that their parents are constantly keeping tabs on them, or have the babies not cut the apron strings yet?

If they're making pledges do their laundry and such I agree that they shouldn't - I just don't understand why/how these parents are so up in their kids' business and furthermore, why they think deferred would solve any problems.

[shadokat]

I've heard the same thing about Indiana University of Pennsylvania. BUT, NPC's campus visit determined they are sticking with fall formal for now. It's interesting because they are one of the only state schools in PA that does fall formal. Most can't take first semester freshmen. I think that West Chester can though.

[33girl]

H -

Clarion can take 1st semester freshmen but AFAIK they have COB in the fall, which is stupid. West Chester has pretty big numbers, I don't know if it's because of that or not.

I didn't know NPC actually went to IUP - PM me some more details .

[LuvUTrulyKKG]

Well...
I am a sophomore at Furman University in Greenville, SC, and we have deferred recruitment for both sororities and fraternities in January. I do not have a definite opinion supporting either side, so I will give you some thoughts:

"BOT members expressed concerns about fall rush because of the numerous commitments required for new members in various Greek organizations and the difficulty in becoming acclimated to the University."

- Isn't a greek organization's time committment what you put into it? I know that there are a ton of mixers with every other group, but you can choose to attend... This isn't only during the fall semester, but it also happens after accepting a bid after deferred recruitment! The time committment is still a change from before accepting a bid, so really this can't be used as an argument for pro-deffered. And how can you say that a student is "acclimated" to college after only 1 semester? I know for me, as well as many people I know, it took an entire year.

- Doesn't a Greek Organization help you adjust better? You have a support system that has been through the same experiences that you are going through...

"Jim Tatum, chairman of IFC's Fraternity Alumni Advisory Committee, said 40 percent to 50 percent of UNC fraternities have minor problems involving pledges being forced to do inappropriate personal errands for fraternity members. He said, such problems are significant in 5 percent to 7 percent of fraternities."

- Do they think moving to deferred will help this? Because pledges will still be asked to do "inappropriate personal errands" no matter when recruitment occurs...

"They determined that deferred rush created a semester-long "dirty rush" that hindered the intellectual climate and also caused Greek organizations to suffer financially."

- "Dirty rushing" does occur with deferred, some organizations know exactly what their bid list will look like - even before recruitment has occured...

I'm sure there is a lot more to their argument for deferred, but it just seems to me that the arguments that they are using are applicable to either recruitment style.

[DolphinChicaDDD]

I'm going chime in quickly and say I wish we had formal in the fall. We are defered right now, and I'm going to estimate that 75% of the girls who go through formal (who are usually freshman) know when they walk into Pahellenic Registration what sorority they want. They get a bias based on rumors (IMHO from the fraternities/non Greek upperclassmen) about what sorority is "the best, the prettiest, the ones who party the most, the smartest, the weakest" etc with the superlatives.
I collected the money this year from formal, and I can't tell you how many girls were walking around going "Well, I hear ABC was_______, which is why I only want DEF" or my favorite "I heard XZY and KLM haze, but I still want to pledge KLM" (yes, someone really said that). While I know girls should not pass judgement on rumor, it happens.

To me, formal in the fall just makes much more sense. There is less of a chance of an organization being seen as "weaker" or "stronger" or "better" or whatever.

[preciousjeni]

Originally posted by DolphinChicaDDD
I'm going chime in quickly and say I wish we had formal in the fall. We are defered right now, and I'm going to estimate that 75% of the girls who go through formal (who are usually freshman) know when they walk into Pahellenic Registration what sorority they want. They get a bias based on rumors (IMHO from the fraternities/non Greek upperclassmen) about what sorority is "the best, the prettiest, the ones who party the most, the smartest, the weakest" etc with the superlatives.
I collected the money this year from formal, and I can't tell you how many girls were walking around going "Well, I hear ABC was_______, which is why I only want DEF" or my favorite "I heard XZY and KLM haze, but I still want to pledge KLM" (yes, someone really said that). While I know girls should not pass judgement on rumor, it happens.

To me, formal in the fall just makes much more sense. There is less of a chance of an organization being seen as "weaker" or "stronger" or "better" or whatever.

I DEFINITELY see this as a problem and I'll have to echo other people when I say, what difference will deferred really make in satiating already over-protective parents??

[XOMichelle]

I think that the Universities should look into why parent's don't support GLO activites before they decide to defer rush or give GLO's the boot. Parents can have different reasons for disliking activites, some founded, and some unfounded.

For instance, my mother has always been against my involvement in dramatic theater. She thinks it is a waste of time, and that it does not cultivate any useful (read: employable) skills. Many many many people disagree with her, and have lots of good reasons to do so. If my parents caught wind I involved myslef in drama in college, they would have gone nuts. Same thing with GLO's. My mother was in a GLO in college that didn't offer her much. My Dad loved his fraternity (DKE), but he thought they drank waaaaay too much, and wanted me to stay away from it. However, my experiece with Chi Omega changed their minds so much, they tried very hard to get my sister to rush when she went to college.

If they thought even for a minute that my involvemnt in any extra curricular activity was going to hinder my ability to get a job or into grad school, I would have never heard the end of it.

[James]

You only put in deferred Rush if you want to hurt GLO numbers. It can't possibly help numbers.

So the only reason to defer Rush is if you think Greeks are bad on your campus and you want to diminish their impact.

Deferred Rush at a state school is actually technically ilegal because they are denying you the right to associate.

[James]

I have seen a lot of arguments on both sides . . but the bottom line is whether you want to hurt the numbers GLO's can recruit.

Thats the argument that Fraternity/sorority members have to center on. They shouldn't let themselves get caught up in elaborate rationalizations.

[Firehouse]

Deferred rush at a state school will be found illegal and unenforcable, if challenged. If you go to the UNC-Chapel Hill Greek Life site, you'll see that the chapters are terribly micro-managed, administrators instructing the chapters even as to exactly when they can/must initiate their members.
I can't fault any university for wanting to make Greeks better, but here is an example where they go past the line and attempt to control all aspects of life. If you BELIEVE that the Greek office can dictate what day you initiate your pledges, then you may believe that they can impose deferred rush. If these administrators do like other schools sometimes do, they'll say that "the faculty" wants to eliminate Greeks altogether or they want a one-year's deferral. Greek life people will present their plan as a "compromise". All you have to do is simply say NO. Almost any restriction of your right to associate is a violation of Federal civil rights law. Just as a magician depends on misdirection and suspension of belief to fool his audience, so do some Greek Life bureaucrats at some schools depend on the same tricks to fool undergrads. There doesn't need to be a discussion. If you don't want deferred rush, all you have to do is refuse to go along. Any punishment of you could make specific administrators liable. I'm not a lawyer; ask one - ask any of them and learn.

[exlurker]

Originally posted by 33girl
Do the majority of students live that close that their parents are constantly keeping tabs on them, or have the babies not cut the apron strings yet?

If they're making pledges do their laundry and such I agree that they shouldn't - I just don't understand why/how these parents are so up in their kids' business and furthermore, why they think deferred would solve any problems.

I myself am not sure that deferred would solve the problems. And not being from North Carolina, I can't say for sure what's going on with parental involvement --- however . . .

Over 80% of the student body at Chapel Hill is from North Carolina, and Chapel Hill is either for all intents and purposes in or reasonably close to some of the major population centers: Raleigh and Durham in particular, with Greensboro and Winston-Salem not all that far away. So it's possible that parents may be fairly close. Another factor may -- I emphasize may -- be that Chapel Hill is a high-prestige, highly selective school, and thus likely to have a good many parents who are concerned about / involved in / perhaps even "over-invested" in their children's success and well-being (from kindergarten on, in some cases). Dad and Mom may have been bursting with pride that their straight-A, loaded-with-activities, high-SATs kid even managed to get admitted . . . and may be ticked if the kid reports that he's stressed because of, to use your example, doing someone's laundry.

Which brings me to a side observation: sure, a few parents might be spying on their kids, but I'd guess in more cases the parents are hearing gripes from the kids. Some parents then apparently pass that along to the trustees, if the Tar Heel article is any indication.

Ya know, along the lines of Firehouse's advice to "just say no," I do think it's a shame that more pledges / new members don't feel empowered enough or comfortable enough, or safe enough, to say "no" when ordered or requested to do pointless personal-service activities.

Just speculating, of course.

It is interesting that, at least as I take the article, the complaints seem to be with fraternities, not with the Greek system as a whole.

[Coramoor]

They are talking about the same thing at my school as well. At least now I know a little bit more and we can call bull shit on them if they try it. Although I'm sure WVU's screwed up administration will try and find some way around it.

[James]

Force them to say straight out that they are doing it to hurt your numbers . . .

There really is no other rational reason to do it.

Originally posted by Coramoor
They are talking about the same thing at my school as well. At least now I know a little bit more and we can call bull shit on them if they try it. Although I'm sure WVU's screwed up administration will try and find some way around it.

[Coramoor]

The funny thing is, the committee that is in place that is trying to make these changes are telling us that they want to strengthen the greeks on our campus.